Gary Stevens Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No it does not change. Word games aside, in this sport we have magnets on our belt for one purpose to carry a magazine. I unfortunately have had to send more than one shooter to Open Division because of a magnet forward of the hip bone in Single Stack. I honestly don't understand the logic of risking a trip to Open or the filing of an arbitration, with all the associated muss and fuss, and potential impact on their shooting. If someone feels so strongly ask NROI to issue a ruling that says it is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No it does not change. Word games aside, in this sport we have magnets on our belt for one purpose to carry a magazine. I unfortunately have had to send more than one shooter to Open Division because of a magnet forward of the hip bone in Single Stack. I honestly don't understand the logic of risking a trip to Open or the filing of an arbitration, with all the associated muss and fuss, and potential impact on their shooting. If someone feels so strongly ask NROI to issue a ruling that says it is OK. I don't think it's prudent and understand your logic...... My approach is a little different -- as long as it's not used to retain a mag, I'm fine with it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No problem. Two friends who disagree on a point of order. I am a rulebook person. Our shooters need to know what they can do and what they can't do. I won't negatively impact a shooter without rules to support it. However, I won't ignore, the rulebook as I understand it, just because it might not have been the way I would have written the rule. See you at Area 8 I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means. I agree with most of what is being said here. If you follow the rule quoted above "each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch" then shouldn't I be required to make ready from a pouch and not my pocket. not trying to argue, this could just be a play on words and me reading to much into the rules. Either way I don't use a magnet, and my buddy isn't going to use a magnet. maybe we need clarification on when the stage of fire starts, at the "load and make ready" command or after the "buzzer" in these types of situations. In my opinion at the load a make ready command you are under the SO/RO control and must perform all acts safely and after the buzzer you can have your mags/equipment where ever you want as long as you don't use a mag from an illegal (for lack of a better term) position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think this covers what you're asking: 5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1). Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point will be allowed providing they are not removed from the apparel pocket(s) between the “standby” command and the command “ if clear, hammer down and holster”. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty). When stipulations in the WSB require placement of magazines or speed loaders on a table or similar location and not in the retention devices prior to the start signal, retrieving them and using them from the hand is allowed. Further, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices carried in the hand after the start signal are not subject to the equipment position restrictions of Appendix D, Item 12, as long as they remain in the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means. <snip> maybe we need clarification on when the stage of fire starts, at the "load and make ready" command or after the "buzzer" in these types of situations. In my opinion at the load a make ready command you are under the SO/RO control and must perform all acts safely and after the buzzer you can have your mags/equipment where ever you want as long as you don't use a mag from an illegal (for lack of a better term) position. The rules clearly tell us that the Course of Fire begins with the "Make Ready" command and ends with "Range is Clear". Also, it's clear that equipment (including mags) must be where the rules say it is to be, for that Division. In Prod and SS, all equipment behind the hip bones (mag holder is equipment, yes?) and mags in designated holders or pockets that are behind the hip bones. The rules are pretty easy, once they're understood. (Okay, unless we don't agree with them or want to argue "intention" or the meanings of words!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Since there is 5.2.4, I don't see a difference between having a magnet on your belt and having a pocket in your apparel, both forward of the hip, provided you use neither after the beep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayohee Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) I thought it was a good question so I emailed Amidon. I sometimes have trouble reaching into my pocket and would much rather pull from magnet. Unfortunately, however, you cannot use the magnet regardless if it's not during the COF. His response is below Edited August 21, 2014 by Jayohee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 We had this same discussion when this rule went into effect in 2013....I asked Amidon about it (I'll see if I can dig up his response)...but the end of it was, yeah, you can have a magnet....but if there is a mag stuck to it after make ready or before range is clear, you're in open.... I even asked why not use a magnet at MR and at ULSC....since you can use a pocket in front of the hip to MR or dump your mag into at ULSC... response was that is an apparel pocket and not a magnet....I asked about having a magnet in your pocket and just letting the mag stick to it through the pocket....nope, mag still retained by magnetic means.... Get over it, I did ( and Nik and I had a very lengthy thread about it)....I took mine off the belt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=165754&hl=+magnet thats one of 4-5 threads about this same issue.... DON'T USE A MAGNET FOR ANYTHING IN PD OR SS. END OF STORY. Edited August 21, 2014 by GrumpyOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Grumpy one that's the kind of answer I was looking for. There really isn't a difference BUT THE HEAD RULES GURU SAID NO SO THE ANSWER IS NO. I like it. Thanks for adding the other links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now