Round_Gun_Shooter Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 From Page 34: Speedloader/Full Moon Clip carrier must:A. Be designed for concealed carry and suitable for all day continuous wear. B. Be worn on a standard belt of no more than 1 ¾” width that must pass through the belt loops on the shooter’s pants. C. Have either a snap/Velcro cover or a tension device that will positively lock the speedloader/full moon clip in the carrier. D. Require a releasing action to remove the speedloader/full moon clip from the carrier. E. Hold a loaded speedloader/full moon clip securely in the carrier. F. Cover the full diameter of the speedloader/full moon clip but not hold the speedloader/full moon clip by only a few of the cartridges. Now, here is a Shoot the Moon Holder Meets A, Meets B, Meets C with tension device, Meets D-requires pull, E makes it F needs a clarification. Don't think it makes it. Does not cover full diameter Common Speed loader holder: Same comments as above. This one seems to make it on all counts. Last is the type I have for my SL Variant and is also common for CompIII Safariland. Loader fits into open top carrier. Meets A, Meets B, Meets C as tension device, D requires pulling action, and E is met as it covers the full "Diameter" As pointed out to me today by BONES, it states "Diameter" It does not state Circumference. If anyone has a picture of the "Bears Den" holder from one of the finest leather men I dealt with, please post. (Bear, god rest his soul, would be arguing this one I am sure) So, who can show me what I need to have to be legal. Is it this? Try operating those snaps when they are behind your holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Full diameter would be from one side to the other. Circumference would be around the outside of the circle. I think everything you showed is legal. At least it will be if I am SO. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 i have a bear's den holder. I can get you a pic of it tomorrow. Take care, Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Sounds like what you can't do is hang it by 2 rounds over the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Full diameter would be from one side to the other. Circumference would be around the outside of the circle. I think everything you showed is legal. At least it will be if I am SO. Bill Nesbitt Thanks Bill, If I am the SO, all the holders I posted would be allowed. I just hope everyone thinks the way we do Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 My thought is they all meet all criterea. I have no insight into how it will be interpreted. I don't get hung up on the word "device". From my perspective as a simple mind if you take the holder off the belt with the moonclip/speedloader in it, turn it over and shake it, the moonclip/speedloader should not fall out. If that is the result, and barring the intervention of some supernatural force, some device must be holding it in. With that established, it follows that some releasing action is required to remove from the holder. I don't believe a tow strap. storm flap, load binder or safety chain are required, just that some force other than gravity retain the speedloader/moonclip. I carry Kydex versions of the steel clip "shoot-the-moon" holders you showed routinely with my Comp II K-frame speedloaders (and Surefire Z2) and have never had an issue on the street, in the car or in IDPA competition. Regards, Bones PS: all RGS made SS in ESR yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 F. Cover the full diameter of the speedloader/full moon clip but not hold the speedloader/full moon clip by only a few of the cartridges. As Bill said, diameter and circumference are very different. Here is a picture of the type of carrier I think item F was specifically targeting. This one is by Blade-Tech. As you can see it does not support the full diameter of the moon clip (it only supports one side) and the clip is only held by a couple cartridges. I also think that the new rules will prohibit hanging moon clips off your front pocket, or hanging two moon clips off one Shoot the Moon carrier since this creates the same kind of setup as pictured above. Just my totally unofficial opinion. -Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 What's so "gamey" about the Blade-Tech setup? Looks like the most practical, "streetable" setup for carrying moonclips out there. That's why I bought a couple of them. Of course, my gun and the holster I ordered last week for it are IDPA illegal now too, so I guess the moonclip holder thing doesn't matter. Oh well... Outlaw racing, Outlaw biker clubs... I may belong to one of many new Outlaw IDPA clubs.... actually I like the sound or that... Dan Overcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisgahrifle Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I just checked with IDPA HQ about Safariland CD-2 SL carriers. They say that since the design is intended for competition only (one can assume they may have checked with Safariland about this) it is illegal. Since several designs of SL or moon clip carriers follow the same lines, one can assume they're illegal as well. They did say, however, that the other revolver rules were going to be worked on and changed soon- which probably means before the S&W Winter Nats. Doesn't matter for me though- the CD-2 prohibition knocks out my last full legal rig. What's Ironic is that I've never used anything but CD-2's for concealed carry. Oh well, no IDPA for me for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 dcloudy wrote: "Of course, my gun and the holster I ordered last week for it are IDPA illegal now too, so I guess the moonclip holder thing doesn't matter." If you are talking about the S&W 625 & 610, then you are currently correct. Both guns are banned by IDPA. As to what might happen or what rules IDPA might choose to pass in the future, I have given up trying to predict those. I will believe it when I see it happen. Until then, I'll be shooting my 625 in other competitive sports. UPDATE: there seem to be some who feel the 625 meets the weight requirements while others are finding it does not. Will have to "weight" & see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I can't use my Ted Blocker heavy wire clips anymore, but I have a couple of old Bianchi open top dual SL pouches that have a tension screw between the SLs, just like a mag pouch. I need to start practicing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 UPDATE: I have found what I consider the easiest way to modify the Shoot the Moon holder to IDPA rule book legal. I added a post rather than modifying an already well made carrier. I used a piece of clear plastic 1/4 " Outside diameter tubing. It fits snug in the center hole and properly cut to length it works. Total cost was 40cents to take care of 7 holders and I have tubing left over. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 clever boy.... Now try a band of loosely fitting shock cord strategically placed over the forward lip of your speedloaders in your open top Safariland-type speedloader holders and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 clever boy....Now try a band of loosely fitting shock cord strategically placed over the forward lip of your speedloaders in your open top Safariland-type speedloader holders and you're good to go. Will it pass the upside down test? I still think if I shoot SSR I will reload from my pocket. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 dcloudy777, you can bring your outlaw gear and shoot it all you want at our USPSA match, Use cover, make Tac reloads we don't care we just want you to come shoot !!!! Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff87 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 F. Cover the full diameter of the speedloader/full moon clip but not hold the speedloader/full moon clip by only a few of the cartridges. As Bill said, diameter and circumference are very different. Here is a picture of the type of carrier I think item F was specifically targeting. This one is by Blade-Tech. As you can see it does not support the full diameter of the moon clip (it only supports one side) and the clip is only held by a couple cartridges. I also think that the new rules will prohibit hanging moon clips off your front pocket, or hanging two moon clips off one Shoot the Moon carrier since this creates the same kind of setup as pictured above. Just my totally unofficial opinion. -Vincent "holding by two" also applies to use the shoot the moon using only the front part of the clip to improve speed by hanging the cartridges by two on the front side only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 RGS, I installed the shock cord strap yesterday and tried the following tests on the holder/loaded speedloader assembly: 1) inverted it and shook it vigoroursly 2) bounced it off the couch seat cushions 4 or 5 times 3) dropped it from waist hieght (~3') onto a tile floor 4) rolled it about 25' across a hardwood floor from a standing position It passed all tests. It does not slow my speedloader retrieval. Total cost $0.75 in 1/8 shock cord. Assembly time - about 15 minutes. Tools required - Leatherman. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Got any pics Bones? Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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