inside the 929

[mikeAZ]

Tom F. Bet ya see a difference in brass from different manufacture's don't you??? Like your 3 Factory moon clips??.....I learned my lesson. I use only one brand of brass and the moon clips that were made for that brass...Even TK offers different moon clips for different manufacture's .38 special brass.... IT ANI'T all the same!!!, 9mm is no different. The Factory included 9mm 3 each moon clips are maybe ok for the initial load but I've had a round fall out of the Factory moon clip as they are so sloppy with certain brass.....I'm working with a fellow shooter who just happens to work for a Company that's not afraid to EDM engineer/design non aero-space products... a moon clip is no biggie for them. Just trying to pass along my observations, maybe of some help to a new 929 owner???...maybe not....

[peterthefish]

Tom F. Bet ya see a difference in brass from different manufacture's don't you??? Like your 3 Factory moon clips??.....I learned my lesson. I use only one brand of brass and the moon clips that were made for that brass...Even TK offers different moon clips for different manufacture's .38 special brass.... IT ANI'T all the same!!!, 9mm is no different.

9mm is VERY different than 38 Special. There's a reason TK offers different clip sizes across 38/357 but not for 9mm / 40 / 45 ACP. The dimension of the extractor groove is part of the SAAMI specification for the cartridge. Not so with 38 Special / 357 Magnum. As a result manufacturers of those cartridges use widely varied groove size - hence the need for different sized moonclips and sorted brass if you want a tight fit.

With the 9mm the fit is much more consistent across brands (and I run almost anything I pickup) of brass. Moreover, the slight slop you get doesn't present the loading issues with 9mm that it would with a long cartridge like the 357. There's a reason folks are happy to run Ranch clips on a 625 - with a short cartridge and SAAMI spec'd groove there's no need for custom clips by brand of brass.

[seanc]

I bought all my 929 moonclips from Tom Killhoffer.

They work perfect with all flavors of brass.

More generically, this is more what I was hoping for. As was said, 9mm being so short a little slop in general is not going to hurt you like it does with a 38 case, which when loose can really muck the works up....

I do not want to be in the single head stamp game. A huge point for moving to this gun is range brass will clip up and run. Sure if I am going to the IRC I will have a couple hundred pieces of premium brass just for that, but the whole rest of the year I want to be able to just load my whole season of club/practice brass over the winter and not touch the stupid press again until the winter.

[Gregg K]

If a clip fits all brass and we know that not all brass is the same diameter then some of the cartridges will fit better than others. As Mike NM mentioned some brass will almost fall out. I can shake out a R-P case from a loose fitting clip. If you don't want to sort cases to get the best fit and you are ok with mediocre fit that's fine. I just don't see what's hard about getting a few thousand of one brand with a decent fit and keeping them together. I few thousand WW cases will fit just as well as Starline and should be plenty cheap if you don't already have them from shooting white box. The examples of 929's that I have seen did not come with TK's blue clip but instead they came with a cheaper Ranch Products clip. TK's stamped blued moon clips do fit much better but the best fit still depends on the brand of brass.

[pskys2]

Another issue to think of. If any auto brass is used in a semi auto, or a barrel with a large throating job (so it feeds), you will see distortion in different areas. In a .45 the rims will flatten and get distorted due to some extractors. Can lead to moon clip fitting issues. Something to be aware of, don't just load up 50 moon clips and run off to a big match. Check them for fit in your cylinder.

[one-gun]

Another issue to think of. If any auto brass is used in a semi auto, or a barrel with a large throating job (so it feeds), you will see distortion in different areas. In a .45 the rims will flatten and get distorted due to some extractors. Can lead to moon clip fitting issues. Something to be aware of, don't just load up 50 moon clips and run off to a big match. Check them for fit in your cylinder.

And this may not be an issue for 9mm auto brass but I originally got my 38 super 627 bc my brother was already loading that caliber for a 1911. But I found his starline brass could have extraction problems when shot in my revo. I think it was related to the different ways the two guns expand the brass. So I got 1k dedicated starlines (and hearthco's). And no one really left their super brass on the ground anyhow.

[pskys2]

Another issue to think of. If any auto brass is used in a semi auto, or a barrel with a large throating job (so it feeds), you will see distortion in different areas. In a .45 the rims will flatten and get distorted due to some extractors. Can lead to moon clip fitting issues. Something to be aware of, don't just load up 50 moon clips and run off to a big match. Check them for fit in your cylinder.

And this may not be an issue for 9mm auto brass but I originally got my 38 super 627 bc my brother was already loading that caliber for a 1911. But I found his starline brass could have extraction problems when shot in my revo. I think it was related to the different ways the two guns expand the brass. So I got 1k dedicated starlines (and hearthco's). And no one really left their super brass on the ground anyhow.

Yes the Super in IPSC is a very high pressure round, the 45 in IPSC is stressed quite a bit. The 9mm from a Production gun probably won't have those stress issues...BUT if you pick up 9mm MAJOR Brass I'll bet a Hearthco Moon Clip that you will have issues. All that being said if I had the money to spare and the opportunity I'd probably snag a 929, just because!

Edited May 31, 2014 by pskys2

[Tom Freeman]

Tom F. Bet ya see a difference in brass from different manufacture's don't you??? Like your 3 Factory moon clips??.....I learned my lesson. I use only one brand of brass and the moon clips that were made for that brass...Even TK offers different moon clips for different manufacture's .38 special brass.... IT ANI'T all the same!!!, 9mm is no different. The Factory included 9mm 3 each moon clips are maybe ok for the initial load but I've had a round fall out of the Factory moon clip as they are so sloppy with certain brass.....I'm working with a fellow shooter who just happens to work for a Company that's not afraid to EDM engineer/design non aero-space products... a moon clip is no biggie for them. Just trying to pass along my observations, maybe of some help to a new 929 owner???...maybe not....

My 929 is still really new and I only have about a thousand or so rounds through it. I only received a single moonclip with it, but I already had 50 HearthCo/TK moonclips on hand.

Every flavor of brass I have tried stays in tight and goes boom with a 4.5 lb trigger. Not as tight as 38 Medium Colt Starline brass in .025 clips, but close. You arent snapping them in by hand like I was able to with the OEM 929 moonclip.

[PatJones]

Another issue to think of. If any auto brass is used in a semi auto, or a barrel with a large throating job (so it feeds), you will see distortion in different areas. In a .45 the rims will flatten and get distorted due to some extractors. Can lead to moon clip fitting issues. Something to be aware of, don't just load up 50 moon clips and run off to a big match. Check them for fit in your cylinder.

And this may not be an issue for 9mm auto brass but I originally got my 38 super 627 bc my brother was already loading that caliber for a 1911. But I found his starline brass could have extraction problems when shot in my revo. I think it was related to the different ways the two guns expand the brass. So I got 1k dedicated starlines (and hearthco's). And no one really left their super brass on the ground anyhow.

Yes the Super in IPSC is a very high pressure round, the 45 in IPSC is stressed quite a bit. The 9mm from a Production gun probably won't have those stress issues...BUT if you pick up 9mm MAJOR Brass I'll bet a Hearthco Moon Clip that you will have issues. All that being said if I had the money to spare and the opportunity I'd probably snag a 929, just because!

The SAAMI pressure limit for 45 ACP is 21,000 PSI and 45 ACP +P is 23,000 PSI. I would not call the 45 a heavily stressed case, the major power factor is a result of the heavy bullets. The power factor calculation favors the .45 ACP and other large caliber cartidges.

9mm has a pressure limit of 35,000 PSI, the same as .357 magnum. The 9mm +p limit is 38,500 psi, I'd be curious to know what the popular 9mm major loadings are running at.

I found these numbers thru several sources, but there is a nicely organized chart here:

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

[seanc]

The SAAMI pressure limit for 45 ACP is 21,000 PSI and 45 ACP +P is 23,000 PSI. I would not call the 45 a heavily stressed case, the major power factor is a result of the heavy bullets. The power factor calculation favors the .45 ACP and other large caliber cartidges.

9mm has a pressure limit of 35,000 PSI, the same as .357 magnum. The 9mm +p limit is 38,500 psi, I'd be curious to know what the popular 9mm major loadings are running at.

I found these numbers thru several sources, but there is a nicely organized chart here:

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

I don't think there is any real data on 9 major that was actually gathered in a lab. That aside, most estimates are many 9 major loads are well into mid 40k+ range.

edit..not shown on that chart is the 9x23 winchester which is 55k psi...I suspect 9x19 major rounds, some anyways in proper supported chambers are going that high...

Edited June 2, 2014 by seanc

[mikeAZ]

I shot? the 929 at the monthly ICORE match at Rio 6/1/14...the 5 1/4 # trigger was a no go for 3 stages .... Bang, bang, click, bang, click , ( I wasn't totally surprised, I was trying to get away with the lightest trigger pull possible and it worked o.k. in practice, go figure?). 5 3/4 #'s gave 100 % ignition on stage 4). Rudy Warren and crew always have interesting setup's, no matter the temperature... It was a 100 degrees plus (typical Arizona summer time day, no biggie, drink more water). The Speer nickel plated 9mm brass was fine in the prototype .032 moon clips, reloads were untroubled, extraction A+. (The .035 prototypes are going to be .001 larger in the case neck area), Federal's should fit just fine?. As I've posted, the 9mm brass isn't all the same in the neck ...My reasons for the nickel plated brass are twofold, I've got plenty of it and most nickel plated is + P rated, so I figured it might be superior/better brass with the fast powders?....I was shooting a mixture of 170 gn. Billy bullets, Frontier 147 rd. nose bullets, and Montana gold 147's x Titegroup x 135 PF.& Federal 100 primers. Used theTitegroup as I have an ample supply of it, but I'm going to load some slower burning powder and see how the primer's look. It's kind'a nice that a lower ranked super senior shooter get's THE new toy before some of the "big" boys?...(Thanks, Ron S & Vic P).

[Gregg K]

...My reasons for the nickel plated brass are twofold, I've got plenty of it and most nickel plated is + P rated, so I figured it might be superior/better brass with the fast powders?....

I don't know about the other manufacturers but Starline tells you on their order page that the only difference between their regular and their +P brass is the head stamp. I have found from shooting a 646 that the nickel brass is a little better on extraction with a Ti cylinder.