Increase Neck tension

[ffgats]

This is for my 223/5.56

Die- Dillon

Is there a logic on this? by screwing my sizing die further will increase the neck tension, of course I will still keep the proper headspace clearance.

Or by unscrewing the decapping pin/ expander just enough to decap the spent primer will keep the case mouth at its mininum and will increase the neck I.D. thanks

[jmorris]

Is there a logic on this? by screwing my sizing die further will increase the neck tension, of course I will still keep the proper headspace clearance.

No logic in that. If the die is set to proper head space and you turned the die further it would just push the shoulder that much back from the proper headspace. Not to mention the neck of the case is not tapered, so pushing anything further through a round hole won't do anything to gain tension.

If the expander runs in and out of the neck it is going to do its job so "unscrewing...just enough to...keep the case mouth at its minimum" would be removing it all together.

Edited May 11, 2014 by jmorris

[Prebaned]

Worked for me.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?/topic/195117-%2E223-LC-Neck-tension

Sent painfully from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[gigs]

jmorris what they are probably referring to is what I call the "waterfall" effect.

This is only relevant if there's no expander ball involved, like with an RT1200 trim die.

[ffgats]

jmorris what they are probably referring to is what I call the "waterfall" effect.

This is only relevant if there's no expander ball involved, like with an RT1200 trim die.

Thanks, can you kindly share more about this Waterfall Effect? any tricks to avoid this or a remedy for this.

[jmorris]

Gigs, using your drawing as a reference, I still don't see how you can lower the die and not effect headspace.

[dillon]

You can't increase neck tension by lowering the die, unless the die is not already low enough to set proper headspace. Check the expander ball, and inspect the upper decap bolt for damage where the decap pin threads into it. If the bottom of the upper decap bolt has flared out then that will over-expand the case mouth when it is pulled out of the case mouth.

[ffgats]

You can't increase neck tension by lowering the die, unless the die is not already low enough to set proper headspace. Check the expander ball, and inspect the upper decap bolt for damage where the decap pin threads into it. If the bottom of the upper decap bolt has flared out then that will over-expand the case mouth when it is pulled out of the case mouth.

thanks, I will look into that, but my Dillon Die has less than 5k rnds on it.

[gigs]

Gigs, using your drawing as a reference, I still don't see how you can lower the die and not effect headspace.

You and Dillon are right, you can't lower the die without increasing headspace, unless it was already sizing them near maximum size and you have some room to go down.

ffgats:

As far as I can tell, it's one of the less common plastic flow effects you can get sometimes when sizing brass. Flow plasticity is a complex topic that has to do with the crystalline structure of the metal, which is affected by anneal/hardness, alloy, temperature, etc. I'll write up an article on less common plastic flow effects such as this one and put a post here when it's done.

[ffgats]

more details on

when trying to assemble a dummy round with size and trim case, the bullet ( 55Grs) will not go in the brass by hand, presumably I had a good tension, its when I am on the actual reloading with powder and seating the bullet ( 55grs - Hornady and Frontier) that there is a setback. with 2.220 oal its not too bad , its when I seat at an OAL of 2.240 that setback is very bad, I can push the bullet even with a moderate push. Again this does happen on a dummy round. But my 75 grs is perfect. with an OAL OF 2.250 loaded round. thanks again

[gigs]

That doesn't make much sense.

The only thing I can think of is that you are actually feeling a burr or a very small ring of properly sized brass when you try to insert the bullet by hand.

BTW- I do sell a case mouth neck tension tool on my site that might help you.

Edited May 15, 2014 by gigs

[Steve RA]

You can always polish the expander ball and reduce the diameter slightly, which will increase the neck tension.

[dillon]

does the looseness begin after seating or after crimping the case? If the seat die body is down too far this can occur at the seating die. Having the crimp die down too far can bulge the case away from the bullet as well.

[ffgats]

I dont crimp so most likely its on the seat die.
I have 2 different instruction manuals
The one that comes with the die is to screw the die until touches the shell holder and backout 1/8 turn.
From the 8.1 version manual( 550B) = screw the die until touches the shell plate and BAckOut 2 Full turns
I did the first one that comes with die.

Now, is there a possibilty that the powder funnel is the cause .

Again it doesnt happen to my 75 gainers.

Gigs, youre right it really doesnt make sense,

Edited May 16, 2014 by ffgats

[dillon]

Adjust the seat die as follows, put a sized, empty case in station 3, pull the handle down. Leave the handle down, and the case elevated. With your fingers, screw the die body down until it stops against the case. Now back it up 1/4 turn. finger tighten the die body lock ring only. Now, adjust the seat stem to seat the bullet to the desired depth. Once adjusted, tighten both die lock rings with a loaded cartridge up in the die.

On the powder measure, since you don't flare a 223 case, adjust the height of the powder die so that the powder bar has fully travelled to the far side at the same time the handle bottoms out. If the powder bar quits moving before the handle is stopped, then the powder die is down too far.

[ffgats]

thanks, will try your advice

[ffgats]

Adjust the seat die as follows, put a sized, empty case in station 3, pull the handle down. Leave the handle down, and the case elevated. With your fingers, screw the die body down until it stops against the case. Now back it up 1/4 turn. finger tighten the die body lock ring only. Now, adjust the seat stem to seat the bullet to the desired depth. Once adjusted, tighten both die lock rings with a loaded cartridge up in the die.

On the powder measure, since you don't flare a 223 case, adjust the height of the powder die so that the powder bar has fully travelled to the far side at the same time the handle bottoms out. If the powder bar quits moving before the handle is stopped, then the powder die is down too far.

I readjusted the seating and powder dies as per advice from DILLON, and it WORKS. I cant say which one is the culprit, but whats important is it solved my problem. Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread.

Maybe Dillon should include or add with instructions I got from this thread, much simplier and concise. thanks