bullet set back

[Al Capizzo]

I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds of supercomp over the years, but have problem that has me stumped. I had put up my open gun for 6 months or so, so I pulled the super dies out of the press. When I re-installed the dies recently I'm getting bullets shoved back in the case during feeding. In brand new brass this doesn't happen, but on 2nd loading I get this set back. I'm loading on an old Hornady Pro 7, before the lock and load bushings were around. So the dies screw directly into the press. So, what the heck am I missing? This has happened with 3 brands of bullets, so it shouldn't be undersized bullets.

[Jakobi]

First thing I would check is crimp between first loading and second loading. If crimp is changing you need to figure out why (e.g. brass is shorter, dies are moving, etc.).

-Jake

[Al Capizzo]

Justi checked some new brass/ no problem loads and loads with once fired brass (and same lot). All the crimps are at .375". But I can push the bullet back with my thumb on most of the once fired loads.

[gm iprod]

Check length of fired brass versus new brass. Reset the dies with old brass. Check expander is clean.

[Sarge]

Dies are not set deep enough it something. Brass is not getting sized at the mouth, plain and simple.

FYI, crimp has absolutely nothing to do with set back issues

[Al Capizzo]

I believe Sarge is correct, I'll work the sizing die down and we'll see how that goes.

[Al Capizzo]

I've got the sizing die turned way down, to the point where I've got real issues camming the ram linkage over. Bullet tension is much better but still having the problem with maybe 25% . I suppose its possible the sizing die is worn out although I've never heard of that. I think I will try to replace the sizing die and see if that helps. Cheaper than using brand new brass all the time!

[klee]

Get the EGW "u" die.

[Al Capizzo]

I just ordered a Lee Undersize die which I've always read was the same as EGW . I'm hoping this solves the problem.

[Sarge]

Kind of amazed that the problem only started after reinstalling the dies???

[Al Capizzo]

Sarge, that is what I've been thinking. As I said I've loaded a lot of Super Comp, in the last few years, and many, many rounds of other calibers over the last 30. And I've had the dies in and out many times, I've got two Hornady presses and load at least 4 calibers so there is occasionally some swapping around. I'm convinced it is a problem with the dies though, rather than components as the setback happens with Armscor or Starline brass and 3 different brands of FMJ, even though they all measure the same diameter. We'll see what the "U" die does.

Anyone ever heard of a sizing die "wearing out"? Hard to imagine.

[Postal Bob]

First off, your sizing die,(assuming its a carbide) should be adjusted to where it just touches the shell holder at its top stroke. Too much tension and you can crack the carbide ring.

Either your sizing die isn't sizing down enough, or your expander die plug is over expanding the neck part. To see which, just size a case, then measure inside case diameter. Then size and expand and measure. You'll see where the problem is.

[Al Capizzo]

Postal Bob, that is where I started with the sizing die, but it seemed obvious that the case neck wasn't getting sized (ie."shrunked") enough. The expander plug is backed off to where I have to be very careful seating the bullet in the case. I will do some measuring today and see what I see.

[Postal Bob]

So if the sizing die isn't sizing the case necks down enough, then try another die to see if there's a difference. No matter how backed out the sizing die is or isn't, the case mouth is the first part that passes through. So worst case, if die is backed out, would be that the bottom of the cases weren't sized, and they would not chamber in gun.

Have you looked inside bottom of the die to see if the carbide ring is still there, or if it got damaged? I know its an obviously stupid question, but sometimes the answer is the one we least expect.

[Miranda]

any chance the sizing die is for the 38?

miranda

[Al Capizzo]

Marinda, the die is for .38 Super, I did check in case I had mixed it up with a 9mm. I haven't loaded .38/357 in a looooong time.

[Al Capizzo]

So if the sizing die isn't sizing the case necks down enough, then try another die to see if there's a difference. No matter how backed out the sizing die is or isn't, the case mouth is the first part that passes through. So worst case, if die is backed out, would be that the bottom of the cases weren't sized, and they would not chamber in gun.

Have you looked inside bottom of the die to see if the carbide ring is still there, or if it got damaged? I know its an obviously stupid question, but sometimes the answer is the one we least expect.

I haven't looked inside the die. Like duh. I will do that. As I noted above I've ordered a new sizing die.

[Sarge]

If you can spin or push a bullet easily that has been crimped then the brass has not been sized at all. Something is amiss.

[Al Capizzo]

That appears to be what is happening. I guess I broke it, somehow.

[Postal Bob]

So, did the carbide ring break in the sizing die? That can happen if the die is adjusted down too much, and the shell holder pushes hard against the die's bottom when sizing.

[Justsomeguy]

As Postal Bob said, the carbide ring is really the only thing doing any sizing on your cases. If it is broken or missing you are not sizing the cases.

[Al Capizzo]

New die should be here Monday and we'll see what happens then. It is just so odd how all this started.

[rooster mcbee]

I had the exact same problem. I was using a regular Lee .38 super die loading Super Comp and everything was fine. I went into semi-retirement for 10 years. When I started shooting again I started having lots of bullet set back. I tried everything advised here on the forum, but nothing worked. I bought an EGW Lee undersized die and my problem vanished. I don't know what changed over the years, but something must have.

[jcl]

I am having the same issue with my 38 supercomp brass also, I loaded brand new star line with no problems, but with once fired the die is not sizing. I am using the hornady LNL press. The dies are Lee Carbide 38 super auto. I have only loaded about 200 rounds with these dies. The carbide ring is there and in good shape. I hope your new die dose the trick, if so I will be ordering one

[gm iprod]

Make sure you are using lube. You get more springback with unlubed cases. Especially if brass is older.