ScottQ Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I finally spent some time yesterday doing a trigger job on my Stock 1, and the results aren't quite what I expected, so I was hoping to see if you guys had any ideas. I started out with a Stock 1 which I have put maybe 3,000 rounds through, and when I started my (very basic) trigger gauge showed a double action trigger pull of about 8.5 pounds, and a single action pull of about 3.5 pounds. When I was done, my double action pull is now about 8 pounds, and single action pull is about 2.75 pounds. I'm quite happy with the single action - it's still got a fair amount of take-up but it breaks very nicely. I was honestly hoping for (and expecting) a double action pull down around 6.5 to 7 pounds, or even a bit less. Let me review exactly what I did. Took everything apart, and with the help of a few posts and videos polished all of the major areas that I understand need to be polished. Polished both sides of the trigger bar, and the inside of the frame where they ride, polished the top and sides of the plunger, the bottom of the trigger bar where the plunger rides, the top of the interruptor, and the bottom of the sear cage. I put a little polish on any other areas where 3,000 rounds worth of shooting indicated some wear or rubbing. I used a combination of my Dremel with Flitz, and some nice polishing cloths which run from 30 micron (400 grit equivalent) down to 1 micron (8000 grit equivalent). Some machine marks were obviously left behind (some of them are quite deep), but all in all most everything was polished to a mirror finish. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that my polishing wasn't perfect, but it's hard for me to imagine any imperfect polishing would be affecting the trigger pull that much. Along the way I pulled out the original plunger spring, and replaced it with a pen spring (mine was from a Papermate), which seems to work perfectly. I also replaced the 14 pound hammer spring which was in there with a 13 pound hammer spring and Henning's extra long firing pin (the production legal version) which I got from Jim Bodkin. With the 13 pound spring and the stock firing pin I would sometimes get light primer strikes, so I'm hoping the longer firing pin will allow me to use the lighter hammer spring, though I've not tested that yet. Finally, and if there's an area where I messed up it seems likely to be here, I replaced the stock hammer with the Xtreme hammer (which I also got from Jim). With the new hammer installed, the safety did not work (I understand this isn't uncommon), so I followed Eric's directions and carefully removed just enough metal from the sear leg to allow the safety to engage. The safety now does what it's supposed to do at every hammer position. So now I'm perplexed. Eric's website says, as regards the Xtreme Hammer "the double action trigger pull weight has been dramatically reduced." I would have thought the combination of the new hammer, the lighter hammer spring, and all of the polishing would have reduced the DA pull by more than 1/2 pound, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Hoping you guys might have some ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) I've heard Eric's hammer has different pivot holes so it may have a little effect on DA, but the SA hooks are what you byy a new hammer for. The DA breaks with the trigger bar and disco and hammer spring weight is the primary driver of pull weight. If you're getting light strikes try clipping coils off the firing pin return spring, you will have gone too far if the pin gets stuck in the breech face on an empty chamber... ETA: it seems easier to get a light DA with the long hammer spring of a CZ or an old Witness than with the short spring. My long spring guns are in the 5# range and short springs are in the 7# range. Edited April 9, 2014 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck s Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I would still think that the DA pull should be less(assuming the hammer spring is really a 13 lb one). My S2 and my limited pro both have DA pull weights less than 6.5 lbs after trigger jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottQ Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 I had the same thought about the hammer spring (those little guys have a nasty tendency to get mixed up sometimes), so I have already ordered a brand new 13# hammer spring from Wolff just to make absolutely sure I have the right spring in there. I'm pretty certain I do, but wanted to make absolutely certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 It's been said a few times here that the Wolff springs are a little long and go almost solid right as the DA shot breaks. The solution seems to be to clip a coil of two although I did experience more frequent light strives at that point, but I was able to fix it by clipping coils from the firing pin return spring. Here's the procedure I use: remove the spring and drop the firing pin in the channel, put a punch in the channel and mark where it lines up with the back of the slide; then reinstall the spring and compare, you can clip coils until the FP almost goes to your mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlussoro Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 how is it single action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottQ Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Single action is very nice. Perhaps a bit more take-up than I'd like, but it's very smooth, and breaks crisply at about 2.75 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Yes, check your spring. The Wolff hammer springs are very inconsistent in length (in my experience). I had one that would bind solid before the hammer could clear the slide; you couldn't even cock the gun. Try to take just the flat coil off one end, or maybe the flat coil and 1/2 of the next coil. Put that end down inside the gun. I usually run 14's in all my guns, and doing this has never caused a light strike. In fact a cut 14 might be better for DA since the initial pressure would be less due to the spring being shorter. Also look at the surfaces that touch between the disconnector and the trigger bar. My Stock 1 is about 6.5lbs up to the point where the disconnector is trying to disconnect, then it takes a lot more to get it to break. I personally haven't worked on those parts yet but I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Nealio, Do you know what the Stock I comes with from the factory as far as springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I dunno, 18? 16? Whatever everything else does I assume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottQ Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 According to Wolff's website, the factory hammer spring is 16 lbs. That certainly seems to be in line with what I remember pulling out of my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 With all the parts I have I've lost track of most spring weights, so I started recording the coil diameters, feel free to add if you have more, I'll cross post this in the Chop Shop for future reference: Recoil springs:10# - 0.0385"11# - 0.0390"12# - 0.0400"13# - 0.0405"14# - 0.0415" Hammer springs:8.5# - 0.0335"11.5# - 0.0375"13# - 0.0390"EAA Short Hammer Springs:13# - 0.0285"14# - 0.0315"15# - 0.0315"16# - 0.0315"22# - 0.0345" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well I got my extra trigger bar in and took some 1500 grit and did a polish job on it along with the other places that have been highlighted thru various threads. All has gone well except I'm stuck trying to get the trigger spring back in place. I see on the CZ thread atlas posted how it's supposed to go and even using a slave pin I can't get it to go in correctly. Does the short leg on the spring go down into the trigger itself and the long leg goes into the groove at the bottom of the frame? Any help is appreciated Sent from my flux capacitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Does the short leg on the spring go down into the trigger itself and the long leg goes into the groove at the bottom of the frame? Yes, try beveling the edges of the trigger pin, if it's mushroomed it will be difficult to get back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 What do you mean by "mushroomed" atlas? Sorry for the ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 When you hammer on the pin the end flares out a little, so if you sharpen the pin almost to a point it will go back in more easily; imagine a truncated cone bullet, shape it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well, I am in a pickle. I took my Stock I apart the last two nights and polished the parts necessary. I put everything back together and now it will not fire/engage. When I rack the slide back, the hammer goes all the way back and stays there. I can pull the trigger but it is like it's not engaging to where the hammer will come forward. I did not remove any metal or anything to that effect, simply polished up lightly the trigger bar, top of plunger, etc. Any clues as to what I have possibly put back together incorrectly? Hammer strut pin? Disco set the wrong way? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am going to take it apart again tonight and see if I can figure it out but the gurus on here are so full of knowledge:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Pictures say a 1000 words............ Take the slide off and take some detailed pictures of the trigger group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Does your gun have an over travel screw for the trigger? It could be that your polishing has changed the trigger pull depth needed to actually drop the hammer and you need to increase the travel of the trigger to allow the sear to clear the hammer hooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I will take some pics when get home. Would having the hammer strut backwards cause this? For some odd reason I feel I put in on wrong the more I think about it today. I'll get some pics up soon as can, thanks CHA-LEE Sent from my flux capacitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The hammer strut needs to point to the back of the gun when installed properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I am thinking I have it backwards now that you say that CHA-LEE, won't know til get off work but seems that I got pointing wrong way. Hopefully that's the case and if it is that'll be an easy fix. Thanks again sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm just plain stuck now guys. I don't know why when I put it back together it won't engage. Hoping it's some small thing I'm overlooking Sent from my flux capacitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The hammer strut is on backwards, everything else looks normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Changed strut right way, hammer still won't fall forward, if I push sear down with finger it will but I pull trigger and stays back. Weird Sent from my flux capacitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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