Mbauer67 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 This weekend I watched a vertically challenged shooter who was running a rather long shotgun tube, it probably held 12-13 rounds. The person had a slight fumble with the gun getting caught as it was pulled from the barrel, then drug the tube along the ground for some distance while loading a with the load 2 technique. It was not a glamorous performance but they managed to keep the firearm under control. At the time the thought crossed my mind, would that be considered a dropped gun since it hit the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I would say not if they were still holding the gun, just touching the ground is not dropping. As long as no other safety violations occurred dragging your gun on the ground is no problem . Now if the shooter pulled the gun out of the barrel and lost control of it with both hands and the mag tube hit the ground and the but stock fell back into his hands or body and he then regained control of it that would be a dropped gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I have sat on the arbitration committee at a major match to decide the definition of a dropped gun. The rules for this particular match did not define dropped gun. As a committee we determined that a dropped gun is one that is no longer in control of the competitor. When shooting from prone, parts of our rifles are in contact with the ground, when clearing a stuck case, part of our rifle (violently at times) comes in contact with the ground. Therefor, I believe coming in contact with the ground is only slightly relevant to the case of a dropped gun. If the competitor did not lose control of their firearm and the muzzle remained pointed in a safe direction, based on my understanding of the event I would say there was no safety infraction. But, depending on what set of rules the match you were at was using, this may or may not be the case. Edited February 26, 2014 by Bryan 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Weld a shopping cart wheel on the bottom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 just compensating.....I still run my 10rd RCI Xrail tube that is even with my 26" barrel. in most matches where I can move and load, there is plenty of room and I'm fast enough to load while on my way to the next shooting position. With the match saver, I have 12 on/in the gun when fully loaded. I wouldn't DQ the guy if his mag tube scraped the ground if he remained in control of the gun...if it got sideways and made your hole pucker, another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Weld a shopping cart wheel on the bottom? "Support device" bumps you to open. I'd put some big ol' cannon wheels on it and roll it around the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Heck...in USPSA you can safely ground a gun so long as you stay within 1 meter of it and not in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I would agree with Patrick, as well as add, lose control of is not the same as placed there. just because you are no longer touching the gun, doesn't mean it was dropped, we place guns in barrels and safe boxes and are no longer in control of them but they weren't dropped nor is that a DQable offense. I have placed my pistol on the ground and stood up after shooting prone only to bend back over and retrieve it and holster it, it was not dropped but I was no longer in contact with it. on the OP's topic, was it unsafe gun handling,????? maybe, was it questionable gun handling???? certainly, should they be warned, oh yeah!!!,..... DQ'd???........NO. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbauer67 Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 In this case I would say the pucker factor was high for 2 reasons, the first because the rifle that had just been dumped into the barrel was teetering on the rim of the barrel. Yes perfectly balanced on the edge of the barrel it never came out or touched the ground and always in a safe direction. The second was the action of the picking up the shotgun, I could tell it was loosely gripped and always touching a hand but about as close to loosing control as possible. So it was not pretty. And yes the shooter got a speaking to from a seasoned vet, and did well the remainder of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yikes. Okay, the rifle abandonment is a slightly different thing. Glad that part went okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I have placed my pistol on the ground and stood up after shooting prone only to bend back over and retrieve it and holster it, it was not dropped but I was no longer in contact with it. Trapr Any time I'm going to do something "funky" like Trap's example, or ripping off a gunbelt to clear an obstacle, or anything that I think the RO might not have seen that day, I always try to "ask permission". Some ROs handle the unexpected better than others, and the more they know about what I'm gonna do the less chance there is of getting stopped in the middle of a stage or DQ'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I have placed my pistol on the ground and stood up after shooting prone only to bend back over and retrieve it and holster it, it was not dropped but I was no longer in contact with it. Trapr Any time I'm going to do something "funky" like Trap's example, or ripping off a gunbelt to clear an obstacle, or anything that I think the RO might not have seen that day, I always try to "ask permission". Some ROs handle the unexpected better than others, and the more they know about what I'm gonna do the less chance there is of getting stopped in the middle of a stage or DQ'd. While it may be annoying to some RO's when I ask "obvious" questions like this.....I usually try to ask as well and think it's a good practice. I do it a lot with 180 questions where I feel its well within 180, but unsure how it would look to an RO who is standing 3' behind me with a timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If it's permissible by the rules, why "ask" the RO? I agree it's courteous to inform them of what you're going to do and I myself do the same, but no need to ask permission for something that is permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If it's permissible by the rules, why "ask" the RO? I agree it's courteous to inform them of what you're going to do and I myself do the same, but no need to ask permission for something that is permitted. arguing with the RO as to if you were 175-179 degrees versus 181 degrees after he has already told you that you are DQ'd from the match is less than ideal. A simple "i'll be fine here right?" or "can I set this down to stand up then clear it?" only takes a second and can avoid a Reese's blizzard for what you feel was stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 A 178 degree vs. 182 degree issue is much more subjective and I agree that is a good question to ask, as the RO is the one that determines if something is safe or not. I was referring to Dan's example and I agree it's courteous to inform the RO of your intentions, but simply said it's not something that needs to be presented as a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I want to see a picture of the midget vertically challenged person running a +12 tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbauer67 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Midget, midget, did you really say miiiiiiidget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevyoneton Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I want to see a picture of the midget vertically challenged person running a +12 tube. I believe the PC tag is "little people". I am not over-tall myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Chevy, I did strike out the m word..... pc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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