Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Planning to eventually work up some defensive loads for hiking. I've found that the shorter .38 special cases come out easier from my revolver than the longer .357 cases. Is it OK to reload to .357 levels with modern .38 Special cases? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you have shot 38Sp with lead bullets, you may/will have a lead buildup in the cylinder making 357 brass difficult to eject. I use a Hoppes Tornado brush, sized .38, to clean out the ring. You may have to get vigorous with the brushing. The subject of 357 in 38 cases has come up many times, some do, some don't. I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 No. Not me,I ,you can load to plus P,with JH and hp38 powder. I load 125 gr.zero jhp with win231 or hp38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrVvrroomm Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Is it OK to reload to .357 levels with modern .38 Special cases? No... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Why not? Is the webbing on modern 38 Special brass weaker than 357 Magnum brass? I'm not finding any cut away diagrams for either cartridge showing the dimensions of the webbing. I would think manufacturers would have the same die for 38/357 brass and just stamp it differently and cut it to the appropriate length. The 38 reloads will have the same COAL as the 357. Will be shot from a 357 Magnum gun (SP101). I have to basically use all copper rounds and will probably be using the 140 grain copper bullet from Barnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You have obviously decided to give it a try, I don't think the 38 round will handle the pressure.Do I have proof of that NO. Load them suckers to about 1400 fps and give it a whirl . Oh yea good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 One thing the sp01 should handle it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Uh... no. I haven't decided to "obviously" load them. I want to know why you guys are saying not to do it to make my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you load to the same OAL of the 357, you may/will not have enough bullet inside the case. The 357 brass is longer than the 38 by 0.100" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The biggest problem - IMHO - is that you would be putting the same amount of powder in a smaller container which would raise the pressure above what you would experience in the .357 case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you own a S&W model 27 or 28 and you want to load the 160 grain Keith bullet a .38 Spl case is the only way to do it. The Keith and several more cast bullets are so long that loaded into a .357 case the OAL is too long for these revolvers. I have loaded thousands of "Moderate" .357 rounds in .38 Spl. cases because of this and it works just fine. It does leave a stubborn ring inside the cylinder that must be cleaned regularly in order to use the regular Magnum case and you also must in some way mark these rounds so they do not accidentally find their way into a .38 Special revolver or it could get kind of messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 If it is the same case but it is just cut and stamped differently then it would have the same internal volume if loaded to the same length. As noted above I will be loading to 357 SAAMI lengths. At the same weight, copper bullets are a lot longer than regular lead with a jacket bullets. I don't have the Barnes 140gr 357 bullets yet. But a 180 grain PD .40 TC is .583" long. A Barnes 155 grain copper bullet is .735" long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You have asked for advice, you have decided not to take it by making all kinds of excuses. Bye Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) One major problem is that the .38 case will not crimp in the bullet cannelure. You need a high bullet pull to make Magnum rounds work right. With low bullet pull you will get bullets popping out of the case from recoil and squibs. If you are in a tight situation you may not notice a squib in time to stop shooting. The next shot will be the last one for that gun. Also, the ammo may not work when you really need it. I would use a bigger gun that will eject the longer cases. Gun is too big you say? If you need it and don't have it you will sing a different tune. Edited February 23, 2014 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ok,.I have a question.maybe two. Why do you think a the ammo comanies don't do it ? Why would they go to the expense of manufacturing two cases ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 In reply to #12 above - It isn't the same case with a different headstamp. The .38 Special case is shorter than the .357 Mag case. If you seat the bullet to the same depth - same amount of bullet sticking out of case - then the area left for the powder will be smaller. Same amount of powder in smaller volume equals more pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 In reply to #12 above - It isn't the same case with a different headstamp. The .38 Special case is shorter than the .357 Mag case. If you seat the bullet to the same depth - same amount of bullet sticking out of case - then the area left for the powder will be smaller. Same amount of powder in smaller volume equals more pressure. Planning to load to the same COAL. So ~1.57 COAL with 38 Special cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ok,.I have a question.maybe two. Why do you think a the ammo comanies don't do it ? Why would they go to the expense of manufacturing two cases ? I would think to differentiate between the two cartridges. You aren't supposed to shoot 357 loads in a 38 Special pistol. One major problem is that the .38 case will not crimp in the bullet cannelure. You need a high bullet pull to make Magnum rounds work right. With low bullet pull you will get bullets popping out of the case from recoil and squibs. If you are in a tight situation you may not notice a squib in time to stop shooting. The next shot will be the last one for that gun. Also, the ammo may not work when you really need it. I would use a bigger gun that will eject the longer cases. Gun is too big you say? If you need it and don't have it you will sing a different tune. There's probably going to be no canelure in the bullet I'm planning to use. The 140 Barnes is going to be a long bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you own a S&W model 27 or 28 and you want to load the 160 grain Keith bullet a .38 Spl case is the only way to do it. The Keith and several more cast bullets are so long that loaded into a .357 case the OAL is too long for these revolvers. I have loaded thousands of "Moderate" .357 rounds in .38 Spl. cases because of this and it works just fine. It does leave a stubborn ring inside the cylinder that must be cleaned regularly in order to use the regular Magnum case and you also must in some way mark these rounds so they do not accidentally find their way into a .38 Special revolver or it could get kind of messy. Do you happen to know what the velocity you are getting and barrel length? Can you share what powder and charge you are using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrVvrroomm Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 http://www.chuckhawks.com/most_versatile_handgun.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 ... With low bullet pull you will get bullets popping out of the case from recoil and squibs. If you are in a tight situation you may not notice a squib in time to stop shooting. The next shot will be the last one for that gun. Also, the ammo may not work when you really need it. That's interesting. Please don't get tweaked like the other guy... but the recoil is going to cause the gun to move backwards. The only forward movement for the gun is going to be from me driving it down. So I think the potential problem would be the bullet would be set back from lack of case tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norther Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Gun moves backwards under recoil. The inertia of the bullets in the unfired rounds tries to pull them out of the case, just like a hammer-type inertia bullet puller. Looks to me like the main reason not to do it is the lack of crimp. If the case web is strong enough, (and I think it likely is), powder capacity and pressure should be the same as a .357. I'm not sure it's something I'd do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Why would the backwards inertia pull the bullet out? The bullet and the case will move at the same velocity. The bullet isn't being held outside of the tension from the case. In a run of the mill bullet puller you hammer the puller into a hard surface. The case is held tight but the bullet isn't so it continues forward. When you shoot a gun the recoil is backwards. Not forwards like a bullet puller. Has anybody actually measured their COAL's after firing and experienced this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norther Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I have experienced it, in heavy .45 Colt loads. The case is held firmly, just as in a puller. With a puller, you are swinging it, so the impact makes the case stop abruptly but the bullet tends to continue forward. In a gun, the case and bullet are stopped, but then the case abruptly accelerates backwards under recoil, tending to leave the bullet behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The bullet has what is called static inertia. It tends to remain at the starting point while the gun and case move rearward. It is very basic physics. Yes, I have had this happen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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