Shooting Production with an 8-shot

[shred]

As posted elsewhere, this weekend I decided to take a break from Open and shoot USPSA Production with a 627 8-shot.

Things I learned:

• The PD holster rules are not clear for revolvers (half of the cylinder? Diameter? Length??)
  
• Five moonclips behind your holster is a long way around-- even IDPA lets you have a couple in front of the holster.
  
• Reloads are slow from that 5th moonclip holder
  
• Reloads are slow anyway, if you don't practice
  
• Especially if you are a lefty
  
• 10 shots isn't much. 8 shots is much less
  
• Minor does not encourage hosing
  
• Doubly so when the MD uses Classic targets
  
• Most shooters have no idea that revolvers are allowed in PD
  
• "If Clear, Hammer Down" does not involve the hammer.
  
• Even 8-shots are not very competitive in PD (see: reloads & 8 shots, above), but they are fun
  

[Flexmoney]

Five moonclips behind your holster is a long way around-- even IDPA lets you have a couple in front of the holster.

The answer there may be to put the holster back...along the old (red book) Production position, then put about two moonclip holder in front of it...bringing you to the hip bone.

Might not matter much if the course designer puts 9 rounds in an array.

[Ray Chonlatid]

I quite confused in production division.

The condition 2, semi-auto pistol magazine loaded empty chamber starting. What about your 627 ? Were you have the cartridge in the wheel ?

I do not mind if I shoot in revolver division. Because everybody in revolver division doing the same start procedure. But I serious, suppose I shoot revolver in production division.

[rhino]

The answer there may be to put the holster back...along the old (red book) Production position, then put about two moonclip holder in front of it...bringing you to the hip bone.

That's a really good idea (and one that never would have occurred to me).

In addition to that, it might be worth it to contact comp-tac.com and see if they can make a moonclip/speedloader holder similar to their "Belt Feed" quad mag pouch.

[shred]

There are some different rules specified for Revolvers, but it makes the RO's life interesting if the COF specifies "hammer down on empty chamber". Pop one from the moonclip, line the empty up on the barrel and close the cylinder. Put your ears on first so you don't hear the whining from the auto shooters.

[shred]

The answer there may be to put the holster back...along the old (red book) Production position, then put about two moonclip holder in front of it...bringing you to the hip bone.

I tried that.. the draw was far worse. There's a reason cowboys have their sixguns on up front. You also get a lot of interference between the grip and the moonclips back there.

Anyway, we already decided that Revo Prod wasn't competitive so it may as well be fun.

[Flexmoney]

I stole the idea from Gary Stevens (for good or bad ).

[Steve Moneypenny]

they DO make a stacked moon clip holder one high, one low maybe blade tech? hear they won't work too bad.

The Father-in-law of redmist10 here has a couple i'm sure if you PM him you can get details for you on who makes it and where to get them.

if it were I, i'd shoot L 10 with the wheel gun so you can still put the moon clips where u want them.

[shred]

they DO make a stacked moon clip holder one high, one low maybe blade tech? hear they won't work too bad.

You guys are all about trying to be competitive.

• Even 8-shots are not very competitive in PD (see: reloads & 8 shots, above), but they are fun
  

I did this as a back-to-fun shooting break. It's amazing what you see when you really don't care about outcomes..

if it were I, i'd shoot L 10 with the wheel gun so you can still put the moon clips where u want them.

Maybe.. .38 bullets can't count for Major in L-10 though.

[Ray Chonlatid]

There are some different rules specified for Revolvers, but it makes the RO's life interesting if the COF specifies "hammer down on empty chamber". Pop one from the moonclip, line the empty up on the barrel and close the cylinder. Put your ears on first so you don't hear the whining from the auto shooters.

Thank you Shred.

[Ray Chonlatid]

Maybe..  .38 bullets can't count for Major in L-10 though.

.38special +P+ can meet Major in L10.

[Vince Pinto]

The condition 2, semi-auto pistol magazine loaded empty chamber starting.  What about your 627 ?  Were you have the cartridge in the wheel ? I do not mind if I shoot in revolver division.  Because everybody in revolver division doing the same start procedure.  But I serious, suppose I shoot revolver in production division.

Condition 2? Is that an IPSC term??

Jokes aside, if you load all cylinders of a revolver, I submit that the chamber (i.e. the barrel) is still empty. And unless Jerry Miculek starts shooting Production, I doubt anybody would complain that a fully loaded revolver had any advantage over a pistol with an empty chamber.

Remember, even if you closed the cylinder so that an empty hole was facing the hammer, as soon as you pull the trigger, a live round comes into play, so the only thing you're really doing is restricting the capacity of the revolver, which is illegal under Rule 8.1.4.

[Skywalker]

Maybe..  .38 bullets can't count for Major in L-10 though.

.38special +P+ can meet Major in L10.

Maybe, but according to IPSC rulebook Appendix D2, and USPSA rulebook Appendix D8, there is a minimum .40" bullet diameter requirement to score major PF in Standard / LIM / LIM-10.

[spook]

I think the double pouches would have some merit in this case. But then again, one 9 shot stage/array and you're still fried

[Ray Chonlatid]

Maybe, but according to IPSC rulebook Appendix D2, and USPSA rulebook Appendix D8, there is a minimum .40" bullet diameter requirement to score major PF in Standard / LIM / LIM-10. 

Oh, you are right, Skywalker.

L-10 is single stack of Standard division. 10mm minimum to meet major.

I mixed up with revolver standard division.

Thank you Skywalker and Vince.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

This what you are looking for?

I like it for the 45ACP, but I found the 40s were stripped out of the clips too easily.

TK Custom sells them.

Regards,

[Ray Chonlatid]

Round_Gun_Shooter, what your revolver model of .40s ?

[shred]

I think the double pouches would have some merit in this case. But then again, one 9 shot stage/array and you're still fried

This is why there was some considerable griping from the 8-shot-fan-club when the rule was changed from 8 to 9 in the latest round of rulebooking.

[spook]

QUOTE (spook @ Dec 15 2004, 07:44 AM)

I think the double pouches would have some merit in this case. But then again, one 9 shot stage/array and you're still fried

This is why there was some considerable griping from the 8-shot-fan-club when the rule was changed from 8 to 9 in the latest round of rulebooking.

I understand. I think IPSC should have followed the USPSA rule. I still don't understand why they did it the other way around. 8 shots per array would have made verybody happy. Single Stack shooters, 8-shot revo guys...Oh well...

[Ray Chonlatid]

I think IPSC should have followed the USPSA rule. I still don't understand why they did it the other way around. 8 shots per array would have made verybody happy. Single Stack shooters, 8-shot revo guys...Oh well...

Vince, what your opinion ?

[Vince Pinto]

8 shots per array would have made verybody happy. Single Stack shooters, 8-shot revo guys...Oh well...

And what about competitors in Revolver Standard Division who loudly complain that they must do standing reloads? Should we therefore make it 6 rounds? If we did, we'd have everybody else complaining about boring target arrays.

Pick a number, any number, and somebody will be unhappy.

[spook]

I think the question should be "who can we make happy". But then again, it's true that some people will complain no matter what the outcome is. I am curious what the logic behind the 9-round rule is. It doens't seem "friendly" to any specific platform...

[v-comp]

But Vince,

the revolver standard division requires a maximum of six shots fired before a reload ,so they're only competing with same capacity guns.

In production your playing against higher capacitys.

The only reason nine shot arrays are the norm is "bottom feeders" hate getting their a##es kicked by revo's

I think the eight shot array idea would work well!

CR.

[Vince Pinto]

I am curious what the logic behind the 9-round rule is. It doens't seem "friendly" to any specific platform...

Single stack "1911 genre" pistols with a 9 round magazine.

But Vince, the revolver standard division requires a maximum of six shots fired before a reload ,so they're only competing with same capacity guns. In production your playing against higher capacitys.

We're discussing course design rules and target arrays (i.e. not more than 9 rounds from any single position or view), and these apply to all divisions.

[shred]

I am curious what the logic behind the 9-round rule is. It doens't seem "friendly" to any specific platform...

Single stack "1911 genre" pistols with a 9 round magazine.

Which ones are those?

Standard .45 ACP mags are either 7 or 8 rounds. 9mm/38 Supers get 9 or 10, but they're Minor except in Open and unlikely to be popular for that reason. Maybe the huge .40-in-a-single-stack lobby got to the rules committee again.