ktm300 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Situation: A shooter is shooting at a position and turns his head away from the position while his gun is still pointed at a target. Are you aiming at a target if you are not looking at it? When I saw it happen in real time I had my eyes on the gun but in my peripheral vision I saw his head turn away and he started to take a step then the gun went off, my radar went up but I did not stop the shooter. There is a definition of movement in the book and he did not move with his finger on the trigger per that definition as he had not taken more than one step. There is no definition of of aiming in the book. I don't think it was a DQ as I can't find anything in the rule book that says you have to be looking where you are shooting. If I had stopped him and then went to the rule book I would have just given him a re-shoot so I am glad I didn't stop him. Opinions?? 10.4.6 A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets. 10.5.10 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during movement in accordance with Section 8.5. 8.5 Movement 8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets, all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The handgun must be pointed in a safe direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I have video of myself shooting at a target well after my head and eyes have moved on to another target. This usually results in poor hits for me. I guess it depends on the exact situation. I think a gun can be aimed without looking at the sights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 it sounds like 10.4.6 makes it pretty straight forward. if he was shooting at a target, it's all good. If not, DQ. I've gotten a sight picture on a close target and started to double it while moving my head to the next target. Sarge is right, it's not ideal for good hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I have done this myself too on very close targets while looking towards the next shot. As long as the shot is in a safe direction it's legal even though I usually end up with an Alpha, Delta or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Just to be clear, the next target is +- 10 or 15 degrees from where the gun is pointed, what if the head is +- 90 degrees from where the gun is pointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I look at it this way--if he hasn't violated safety (e.g., the gun is pointed at the target(s)) and didn't take a step when the gun went off, then it doesn't matter where his head is. He may be point-shooting the targets, and, if he's comfortable with that, how can we second guess him--unless he has other habits that make it apparent he's otherwise unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 That is where I got to, I just figured to bring it up as in 3 years and running a lot of stages I had not seen it to this extent. It made me nervous, it got my attention, I didn't say STOP. I am glad I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 There is a definition of movement in the book and he did not move with his finger on the trigger per that definition as he had not taken more than one step. Where in the definition of movement does it say "more than one step"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) In There is a definition of movement in the book and he did not move with his finger on the trigger per that definition as he had not taken more than one step. Where in the definition of movement does it say "more than one step"? 2014 rule book page 59 I am pretty sure it was the same in the rule book current for the next few days but I don't have a copy handy. Movement ........................Taking more than one step in any direction, or changing body position (e.g. from standing to kneeling, from seated to standing etc.) Edited January 27, 2014 by ktm300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBunniFuFu Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Similar incident just happened at my local club. Guy shot at the last array, as he was pulling the gun in it went off. Hit the berm next to one of the targets. R.O. called it and after discussion re-shoot was awarded. 2 CRO's and 4 RO's had the discussion. By the books you don't know if he was point shooting and making up a shot, albeit a really bad make up. As long at it didn't go over the berm of hit within the three feet of his feet should be fine. When I did my Cert. course it was drilled that to call a D.Q. you must be prepared to cite a specific rule number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 As you quoted: 8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets The fact that it says "aiming OR shooting at targets" implies that you don't have to aim to shoot at a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Movement is defined in the current rule book as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Same thing goes for DQ for shooting while on the move. 10.4.6 rules a DQ for, "a shot which occurs during movement, except when actually shooting at targets." It doesn't say you have to be looking at the target, just shooting at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 It doesn't say you have to be looking at the target, just shooting at it. That is where I got to after going over the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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