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Thinking about an Open Witness


Aglifter

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A) Will they run on 38 Super, or will I have to get super comp brass?

B) Should I order a Gold Team to start, or some other model, and send it off to be built into an open gun?

If so, which model, and to whom should I send it?

C) If possible, I would like a blued one - pretty sure I want to have it fully engraved by Gouse after its built - I've been wanting fully engraved competition guns for awhile, for some reason...

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I have a mid length open witness and love it! It started as a normal 9mm steel frame witness then I stuck a compact slide, a full length barrel, a comp and an optima red-dot. I absolutely love it!! I just bought a limited pro so I could use the frame as my dedicated open gun frame, but it has yet to come in. Sorry I cant be more help.

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A) Will they run on 38 Super, or will I have to get super comp brass?

I think I remember hearing Henning say they have to be tuned to shoot SC reliably

B) Should I order a Gold Team to start

I've heard the .38 can survive a steady diet of Major ammo, but the 9mm won't last because there's just too many damn holes in the barrel. I had a 9mm GT top end and the highest PF I shot through it was 164 and it was pretty harsh, the same round made 177PF through a barrel with no holes, so if most shooters want some cushion and load their Major ammo at 170PF+, that's a 186PF+ 9mm round :surprise: which I think would eat up any barrel/slide prematurely. I think the V12 barrel setup has so many holes to make up for a crappy comp, it has two very small ports, so when you pump up the PF, it shoots flat, but hits hard in the hand and is very violent. My V12 on the Hunter frame:

IMG_20130720_213431_804-1_zps5e438cab.jp

or some other model, and send it off to be built into an open gun?

If so, which model, and to whom should I send it?

Here's my IFG import Limited (short dust cover) with a standard length slide (same as the GT) and Dawson's Awesome comp:

IMG_20140117_214937_279-1_zpswrbmhqig.jp

I've only done some preliminary testing, but the results are good!

Here's my small frame shorty:

IMG_20140110_200817_778-1_zpsceuaom5c.jp

If you want to build a custom Tanfo Open (which I highly recommend), Rich at Canyon Creek Custom is the guy to talk to, here's a custom Match he did:

pre_1351104034__photo.jpg

Although I suggest you start with something on a competition frame. There's a great deal on a .38 Super Limited in the classifieds if that's the direction you want to go; all my guns are 9x19.

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I have a gold and a limited both in 38 super. They both run 100% on 38 super brass. I am just running standard MG magazines. If you are running long sticks, 38 super comp or 38 TJ might get you one more round but you might have to modify the extractor. Henning's site tells you how.

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I have a limited witness in .38 super that was made into an open gun with the Canyon Creek comp with no barrel holes. It is a good shooter and runs semi-rimmed .38 super fine. The previous owner said it was set up for 38 supercomp but I was already set up for 38 super so that is what I have been shooting through it. I believe that Henning recommends running supercomp in these guns, and if you are starting from scratch I agree that would be the preferred cartridge for reliability reasons. I have been using the Mecgar MGWIT38LFAFC mags with grams spring/follower, Henning O-141 base pad and some minor tuning (a little squeezing of the funneling indentations to get rounds to stack up a little better). In this configuration the mags hold 23 rounds reloadable of .38 super. For 170mm mags I use mags from my Caspian, which fit and run fine in the large frame Tanfo.

I don’t know why Tanfoglio puts so many holes in their open gun barrels. In Europe they only have to make 160pf for major I believe, so maybe that is part of the thinking. I really like the development kneelingatlas is doing with the Dawson comp on his gun and am anxious to see how this works out. I think my gun with the Canyon Creek comp works very good with 124 grain bullets, not as good with the 115 grain bullets (little too snappy, and not in a good way). One gripe about the gun is that while the barrel I have is marked as a .38 super barrel, I have come to believe it is actually a 9x23 barrel. If you are leaning towards 9x23 that is a good thing, but what I don’t like is that it bulges the 38 super brass more than any of my other .38 supers (all 1911 based guns) and is annoying to reload as I get more cases that won’t gauge or get ruined during the resizing process (hard rings with U-die). I have heard this big chamber issue isn’t uncommon with the .38 super tanfo barrels. Briley is supposedly coming out with a barrel for Tanfos so hopefully if they do then the chamber will be a little tighter. Plus, it should be cheaper than the barrels EAA is currently selling. Maybe check with Sean at Powerfactor shooting if you are interested in a briley barrel.

Gool Luck and post pictures! :cheers:

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I have a mid length open witness and love it!

I don't know what you're measuring against, but that's a shorty if there's ever been one! :roflol:
Well I was comparing it to a limited. It is longer than 5 inches so you know. Plus they have the witness .45 with a carry comp. That's a shorty!
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So I gather a Gold team 9mm with no holes in the barrel is ideal or is there still tuning to be done to make a flat shooter, make PF and prevent Lug damage? (maybe adding 2 holes to that barrel vs the 4 holes on the other barrel)

You're talking about this barrel?

3_pistols_tanfoglio_eaa_witness_gold_tea

I've never shot one, but I imagine it's basically useless I have a few one port comps which make nice barrel weights, but that's it. If I got my hands on one of these barrels I would do one of two things: chop it off at the muzzle, put a sight on it an call it a sight tracker; or heat it up, unscrew the comp and have a custom comp made to fit with three or four ports. The underlying barrel is a 5.25" threaded M15x0.75, so you would need someone familiar with Metric to make the comp (I've found it's easier said than done).

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Yes, the cone on a Limited/Gold Team/Stock II/III has an OD bigger than a 2011 cone, so the comp would have to be custom. I think the best way is to start with a standard slide and have it Opened up to fit the comp you want. 2011 bushing barrels are slightly smaller OD than the large frame barrels so the large frame barrel can be turned down and threaded to work.

I've also welded up comps, then re drilled/tapped them to the pitch I need (it's not easy though, I destroyed one comp :angry2: out of three...)

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So I gather a Gold team 9mm with no holes in the barrel is ideal or is there still tuning to be done to make a flat shooter, make PF and prevent Lug damage? (maybe adding 2 holes to that barrel vs the 4 holes on the other barrel)

You're talking about this barrel?

3_pistols_tanfoglio_eaa_witness_gold_tea

I've never shot one, but I imagine it's basically useless I have a few one port comps which make nice barrel weights, but that's it. If I got my hands on one of these barrels I would do one of two things: chop it off at the muzzle, put a sight on it an call it a sight tracker; or heat it up, unscrew the comp and have a custom comp made to fit with three or four ports. The underlying barrel is a 5.25" threaded M15x0.75, so you would need someone familiar with Metric to make the comp (I've found it's easier said than done).

Unless you happen to know someone that has a large capable of threading metric ;)

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