1st time reloader/ inaccuracy problems

[G17]

I just got into reloading on a single stage lee press. I basically got into reloading, well, for many reasons, one of them being i want to shoot major out of my glock 17 in open.

I loaded my first 100 rounds last night and went to the range today to test them out. I also brought 100 factory 115gr Blazer to kind of compare. All the rounds seem to fire ok, but i was surprised by how absolutely inaccurate my reloads were! I can shoot the factory blazer into 2 inch's at 25 yards fairly easy. My reloads were literally spread out over like 2 feet at 25 yards. Even after benching the pistol the rounds went wherever they want. This is the point where i realize i obviously did something wrong.

My load was 124gr Xtreme plated RN, 6.2gr Autocomp, Rem 1.5 SPP primers, @ 1.160.

Like i said, i plan on making major so i'm working the load up. I'll obviously need to up the charge a little but at the moment i don't have a chrono so am not sure where i stand. The gun seemed to run the load pretty well, (i'v never shot a 9mm that hot so i guess i wasn't sure what to expect). Brass/primers seem to look OK afterwards.

Once again, i'm trying to figure out what i could have done to make such an inaccurate round. Are 9mm Major rounds in general known to be less accurate because of the high velocity?

One thing i would like to note, i had some issue flaring the case mouth. I wasn't quite sure how much flare i needed. When setting the bullet on the case and then pressing it up into the bull seating die i would have assumed the die would have press the bullet perfectly straight into the case. Upon visual inspection it almost looked as if some of the rounds weren't perfectly straight down. (Like after it got pressed the tip was off center just a tad on some). I'm wondering if that could be from me not setting the bullet perfectly straight onto the case before pressing it into the die. I just assumed it didn't have to be "perfect" and that the die would seat the bullet perfectly straight.

I guess i'm just trying to trouble shoot. My loads should not have been that scattered. It looked like buck shot on the target. Any advice for a newbie would be appreciated, Thanks!

[Sarge]

I just got into reloading on a single stage lee press. I basically got into reloading, well, for many reasons, one of them being i want to shoot major out of my glock 17 in open.

I loaded my first 100 rounds last night and went to the range today to test them out. I also brought 100 factory 115gr Blazer to kind of compare. All the rounds seem to fire ok, but i was surprised by how absolutely inaccurate my reloads were! I can shoot the factory blazer into 2 inch's at 25 yards fairly easy. My reloads were literally spread out over like 2 feet at 25 yards. Even after benching the pistol the rounds went wherever they want. This is the point where i realize i obviously did something wrong.

My load was 124gr Xtreme plated RN, 6.2gr Autocomp, Rem 1.5 SPP primers, @ 1.160. Could be the plated bullets. If you read the extreme websight it states only the hollow points or the heavy plated bullets are rated at MAJOR speeds. You have the regular plated it sounds like. Those are what I bought for minor. I will try some Hollow points in open when I get around to it. Then again,they may be crimped too tight or not enough or they are junk. I hope they are not junk because I bought a few thousand to try. But I think you bought the wrong bullets for open velocities.

Like i said, i plan on making major so i'm working the load up. I'll obviously need to up the charge a little but at the moment i don't have a chrono so am not sure where i stand. The gun seemed to run the load pretty well, (i'v never shot a 9mm that hot so i guess i wasn't sure what to expect). Brass/primers seem to look OK afterwards.

Once again, i'm trying to figure out what i could have done to make such an inaccurate round. Are 9mm Major rounds in general known to be less accurate because of the high velocity? Uh, no. a bullet traveling at xx fps, is a bullet traveling at xx fps no matter where it originates.

One thing i would like to note, i had some issue flaring the case mouth. I wasn't quite sure how much flare i needed. When setting the bullet on the case and then pressing it up into the bull seating die i would have assumed the die would have press the bullet perfectly straight into the case. Upon visual inspection it almost looked as if some of the rounds weren't perfectly straight down. (Like after it got pressed the tip was off center just a tad on some). I'm wondering if that could be from me not setting the bullet perfectly straight onto the case before pressing it into the die. I just assumed it didn't have to be "perfect" and that the die would seat the bullet perfectly straight. It doesn't have to be perfect, the die should seat it more or less straight. This will probably lead to recommendations to get a competition seating die but I say this is not your problem.

I guess i'm just trying to trouble shoot. My loads should not have been that scattered. It looked like buck shot on the target. Any advice for a newbie would be appreciated, Thanks!

Like I said, unless you verify that you bought the heavy plate bullets I think you are shredding the plating off when launched. No evidence of hitting the comp right? Look for shavings in the comp.

There is a ton of work that goes into developing a good 9MAJOR load. changing the powder a few tenths can blow a good group out to 8". Shortening or lengthening oal can do the same. Heck I had groups hitting high left with one load and low right with another load. It took awhile to find one that was "just right".

Where the bullet holes nice and perfectly round?

[G17]

I also had another question. The Lee die set i have has 4 dies. It seems as if the bullet seating die gets the bullet tight enough in the case that i don't need to use the last die which is the crimping die. I didn't use the crimping die so i'm wondering if that is necessary or not. Is seems like the bullet seating die crimps it as well. Maybe someone who uses this product could give me some insight.

[G17]

Hey Sarge thanks for your response. The bullets i have are what they call the SPB (Superior plated bullet). I'm not sure if that's the same as the heavy plating or not? On my first couple loads i didn't flare enough the case enough apparently because when i seated the bullet the case wall tore some of the plating up the side of the bullet ( I decided not to try shooting those).

I have some 124 Precision Delta JHP's i bought in the classifieds about two weeks ago. Just waiting on the seller to ship them..

The holes seemed pretty good. I remember a few that seemed kind of torn sideways and i thought that was odd. For the most part though i think they were all good holes.

I'm going to work a new batch tonight and go back to the range tomorrow. This time i'm going to try going down on the oal to 1.150. I'm going to try .2 more grains taking it up to 6.4. Also, i plan on not seating the primers too deep because i did have a few that didn't go off, but i'm pretty sure that's my fault. It took some practice figuring out how deep to seat the primers with this crappy ram prime device.

[Rick88]

..

Edited January 16, 2014 by Rick88

[Sarge]

You want those primers as deep as you can get them. A primer not going off usually means it was not seated enough.

I sent you a link to the Extreme info. I don't recall any of their bullets being named Superior plated bullets.

They have plated bullets and HPCB bullets Heavy plated concave base. Those and hollow point bullets are heavy plated with concave base for MAJOR velocities up to 1500 fps.

Careful shortening oal AND upping the charge at the same time until you get a chrono!

[Sarge]

If your using a lonewolf barrel with 124s your way to long and its hitting your rifling try 1.35 oal. but first try the drop test and see it your bullet spins freely in the barrel.

1.135 you mean.

[G17]

If your using a lonewolf barrel with 124s your way to long and its hitting your rifling try 1.35 oal. but first try the drop test and see it your bullet spins freely in the barrel. Also bell your case more and crimp should be 177 ish

I'm using a KKM and i did the plunk test and it seemed to spin fine. I will try belling the case mouth more though.

On this new batch i am planning on loading shorter though. 1.145-1.15

Edited January 16, 2014 by G17

[G17]

You want those primers as deep as you can get them. A primer not going off usually means it was not seated enough.

I sent you a link to the Extreme info. I don't recall any of their bullets being named Superior plated bullets.

They have plated bullets and HPCB bullets Heavy plated concave base. Those and hollow point bullets are heavy plated with concave base for MAJOR velocities up to 1500 fps.

Careful shortening oal AND upping the charge at the same time until you get a chrono!

Yes, after thinking about this for a second i realise that until i have a chrono it's not a good idea to bring the charge up. Besides, i have a feeling these are probably the wrong bullets for what i'm trying to do so i may hold off until i get what i need in.

[G17]

I bought this little pocket scraper tool from Lee. Its just like a little knob and you stick it in the primer pocket and spin. After depriming and sizing it it really necessary to use this before i prime my cases? I prefer not to if possible because it just seems like a big unneeded step, but then again i don't know exactly how clean the primer pocket is supposed to be before you prime.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Don't have to do anything to the primer pockets

You should be cleaning the cases, though, before you reload them.

[Rick88]

If your using a lonewolf barrel with 124s your way to long and its hitting your rifling try 1.35 oal. but first try the drop test and see it your bullet spins freely in the barrel.

1.135 you mean.

Yep, typing to fast and missed the 1 glad you caught that just hope he knew what I meant. Just another reason to be careful when giving out load info...His kkm should do 1.150 easy.

[ZackJones]

I also had another question. The Lee die set i have has 4 dies. It seems as if the bullet seating die gets the bullet tight enough in the case that i don't need to use the last die which is the crimping die. I didn't use the crimping die so i'm wondering if that is necessary or not. Is seems like the bullet seating die crimps it as well. Maybe someone who uses this product could give me some insight.

The Lee bullet seating die can also apply a crimp if it's adjusted properly; however, the general consensus seems to be that it's better to use the factory crimp die to handle the crimp. Not applying a consistent crimp could be part of the cause for your grouping issues. Also I'd guess if you were to chronograph the loads you'd see some pretty extreme variances in FPS readings.

Youtube is a GREAT resource for setting up your press. In particular watch videos from jiujitsu2000. They are long but extremely informative. I checked and he doesn't have anything for 9mm but even though the caliber is different watch his videos for setting up the single stage press. Also user smalltown442 has a pretty good video on adjusting the dies for 9mm. He talks about applying a crimp with the bullet seating die.

[Pasley]

Seems to me that a good place to start for a first time loader would be with published, standard pressure, data as opposed to hot loads like that.

[Hi-Power Jack]

a good place to start for a first time loader would be with published, standard pressure loads .

I agree, but 6.2 gr WAC at 1.16" isn't too hot. Probably have

to get to at least 6.6 or 6.8 before it starts warming up.

[Sarge]

a good place to start for a first time loader would be with published, standard pressure loads .

I agree, but 6.2 gr WAC at 1.16" isn't too hot. Probably have

to get to at least 6.6 or 6.8 before it starts warming up.

And if you need to load 9MAJOR you won't find much help in loading manuals. You'll probably find the words," Don't try this at home", in big bold letters.

[Bob DuBois]

Take the barrel out of your pistol and drop a loaded round in the chamber should be about .004 under the hood if it is I would leave the length alone. It's not always the case but usually longer loaded rounds are more accurate.

Check crimp at the seating die to be sure it's not to tight, your bullets are tumbling with a quality barrel too much crimp will cause tumbling. How much does OAL vary? May need to work on the bullet seating plug. Shooting major I would use a jacketed bullet, they are more stable at higher speeds. Try to use brass from a major US manufacturer, chunk any Military cases for major they have a smaller case volume, thicker at the base. Any swaged case, small ring punched around the primer will cause problems seating primers, there's enough range brass out there either chuck them or trade with someone loading on a 1050.

Primers should be seated .004 to .006 deep.

More than likely it's the bullet while plated bullets may be accurate in minor, they usually don't fly at speed.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Bob DuBois

[sigsauerfan]

i suspect since not using the crimp die that it might be a part of your problem.also check your aol. i know the most common aol for the 17 is around 1.130-1.135 . then since you were loading at 1.160 shortening the aol means you should get back to square A for your powder load.





you should maybe work your load by small increments . since you load for major start at 75-80% of the max load and work your way up by .2 increment like: 6.0-6.2-6.4-6.6 and load like 10 rounds of each shot through a chrony . you'll notice that the groupings change across the different increments and at one point you'll hit some kind of sweet spot where the groups becomes tighter.

Edited January 16, 2014 by sigsauerfan

[G17]

I loaded another 100 today and i feel much more confident about these. I was reading some posts about what people usually measure their crimp to. A lot of the posts said right around .375. After taking some measurements with the calipers i realised that i don't think the bullet seating die was doing an adequate job of crimping. I adjusted the crimp die and for these 100 i used it.

This batch i wanted to try with an oal of 1.150, but i reduced the charge as well because i'm afraid that these bullets are not appropriate for the speeds i was shooting for.

I loaded 10@4.6...10@4.8...20@5.0...20@5.2..10@5.4...20@5.6..and 10@5.8.

I plan on shooting them all into the best groups i can get and recording the group size with my calipers and and seeing how the spectrum of charge weight compares to each other.

I'm leaving for the range now. I will report back with my findings.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm not positive, but .375" might be too much crimp. No reason to reduce OAL if the 1.16"

fed thru your mag/gun properly.

[sigsauerfan]

neck at .376 is the norm....

[GuildSF4]

It would be a good idea to pull a bullet and make sure you are not cutting the plating, as this can cause seperation of the plating and accuracy problems. Especially on plated bullets you want to just remove the belling, not really crimp. (Case tension holds the bullet, not the crimp. Wasp waist (coke bottle) rounds are your friend.)

[G17]

Hey guys, i just got back from the range and i'm pumped. They worked out great. I think some of the issues may be due to the fact that i didn't really do a good job of crimping the first time. Or it could be because that specific bullet i was using couldn't handle that hot of a round. Honestly i'm not sure what messed my last batch up because i did a number of things different this time.

I started at 4.6 today and they felt like powder puff rounds. I actually had one failure to feed, but after reading someones report i read that was normal to happen in that charge weight range. 4.8 no issues felt ok, 5.0 feeling better. when i got to 5.2 thats when i started noticing the gun was feeling good. At 10 yards every round was going in basically the same spot. 5.4 and 5.6 felt like they had more of an obvious mmmpphhh to them, but i can't say i really noticed a difference in accuracy. Then the last 10 rounds were with 5.8 which i could tell was starting to warm up a bit.

This is awesome as a new reloader to be able to go out and test my loads and get good results, i'm definitely in a good mood!

A pic of one of my targets in the post below. The bottom left one is at 20yards, a bit spread out. The other 3 are at 10yards.

Edited January 17, 2014 by G17

[G17]

[Sarge]

Same bullets?