Mastiff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 1. .223 range brass mixed stuff 2. Decaped 3. Swaged 4. Cleaned I have the cases sitting in a bin. On the bench is all Dillon: Empty tool head RT1200 223 size/trim die FL sizing die Assume I'm going to use the finished rounds for my AR15 at the range, not competition. So here's what I would do: I will have only two tools on the tool head in this order: #3 RT1200 to size and trim, then in the #5 the FL die turned up to do the inside diameter of the neck and then fall into the bin ready to go on the reloading tool head. Done. Good or no good? Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmclaine Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I like to have my brass hit the Rt last. On my set up (1050) I use a Dillon size due in position one and the RT is in 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 From everything I have read, the RT sizes the o.d. of the neck too tight. So to open it up I have it opened up using the Ball only in a sizing die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpy Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I open the neck back up with the expander ball after the trimmer. I find it makes the seating pass easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 I open the neck back up with the expander ball after the trimmer. I find it makes the seating pass easier. Exactly what I am thinking. If the trim die is a sizing die, why are so many guys using a FL die at station 1? This is the part I don't understand. Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Removing the primer, maybe ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Removing the primer, maybe ?? Uh, Steve, the assumption includes decapping - see #2. I remove spent primers with the $12 Lee miracle decap die. Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I open the neck back up with the expander ball after the trimmer. I find it makes the seating pass easier. Exactly what I am thinking. If the trim die is a sizing die, why are so many guys using a FL die at station 1? This is the part I don't understand. Dog Doesn't that mean you will end up trimming more often? Since the brass stretches during the expander ball operation, I would think the brass will grow AFTER you have already trimmed it. I know some folks that do it this was way but they say they trim the brass to under min to compensate but still say they end up trimming more often because not every case stretches the same amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmclaine Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The neck is tight coming from the RT but I don't crimp so the little extra tight is okay by me as it ll goes through an auto loader. I also inside and outside chamfer. A total pain in the A but I was unhappy with the copper shaving I was getting right from the trimmer. My reason for doing it this way...I like the consistency of my brass coming from the RT without having the expander ball have any impact on the shoulder of the case. Likely your ammo will shoot as good or better than mine and passing the ball through the neck after the RT may allow you to get away with not having to debur and chamfer but my OCD prefers my method. I learned this when loading 30-06. I'll be shooting my first ever reloaded .223 ammo tomorrow and will be hoping for good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 The neck is tight coming from the RT but I don't crimp so the little extra tight is okay by me as it ll goes through an auto loader. I also inside and outside chamfer. A total pain in the A but I was unhappy with the copper shaving I was getting right from the trimmer. My reason for doing it this way...I like the consistency of my brass coming from the RT without having the expander ball have any impact on the shoulder of the case. Likely your ammo will shoot as good or better than mine and passing the ball through the neck after the RT may allow you to get away with not having to debur and chamfer but my OCD prefers my method. I learned this when loading 30-06. I'll be shooting my first ever reloaded .223 ammo tomorrow and will be hoping for good results. I neglected to say that I chamfer both the I.d and o.d. as well. I like the smooth edge and I also hate shavings around my seating station, so I think you are not OCD. I think I'll try reloading with out the expander (and with it too) as well. If it works fine, I'll be happy to eliminate the tool. I do not crimp. Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmclaine Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 If your only looking to expand the neck you may want to use a mandrel die as sold by Sinclair. I've considered doing same. Thing is I think the brass comes out more consistent with a two die sizing process. Spring back becomes more controlled? When I operate the press for trimming and size it's not a fast process. I count three Mississippi when the brass enters a die and I hesitate a second or so when the handle is at full stop. This allows for the trimmer to work, th vacuum to clear swarf, as well the size die to get and set its compression. Just my hypothesis derived from others with more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpy Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I trim all my 223 brass every time, so the expander ball doesn't bother me in regards to stretch. I use a F/L die in the first station to decap and partially resize the case, then have the trimmer further along, and a Hornady F/L die raised up in the last station to smooth the neck out and expand slightly. For the way I process brass, this works well. It all goes to stainless tumbler after this process, then I sort out LC brass, FC brass, Winchester brass, and anneal them. The rest becomes blasting ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I trim all my 223 brass every time, so the expander ball doesn't bother me in regards to stretch. I use a F/L die in the first station to decap and partially resize the case, then have the trimmer further along, and a Hornady F/L die raised up in the last station to smooth the neck out and expand slightly. For the way I process brass, this works well. It all goes to stainless tumbler after this process, then I sort out LC brass, FC brass, Winchester brass, and anneal them. The rest becomes blasting ammo. Annealing .223? About how many firings do you get per case by annealing? I think I get 5-7 before they split or the pocket gets too loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Imho, there in no such thing as too much neck tension from a dillon trimmer... ...I am loading for 4 different ar-15s, a couple of ar-10s, and a 308 bolt gun with a factory barrel that does pretty well out to 1k yards...all of my ammo is sub moa, if I do my part... I fl size (75%) and decap with a dillon carbide die before the trimmer, and finish the sizing with the trimmer die. After that, I feel doing any major sizing or expanding is asking for inconsistent brass. I expand the mouth just slightly for ease of bullet seating, and just close that expansion of the mouth with a crimp die. Deburring and chamfering is a waste of time. The burrs are removed when tumbling the brass after the processing step, and any left over are dealt with by the expander and crimp dies on the loading head. I handle the brass individually only twice; once to sort before doing anything to it, and again after it is loaded to guage it. Any other handling is done by the bucket full... If I was loading for bench rest or other super precision shooting I might change a couple of things, but then I would be handling 100 cases at a time instead of 1000+... YMMV jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose76 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I open the neck back up with the expander ball after the trimmer. I find it makes the seating pass easier. Exactly what I am thinking. If the trim die is a sizing die, why are so many guys using a FL die at station 1? This is the part I don't understand. Dog People FL size before the RT so that the expander can bring any dinged up necks back to round. This ensures that the neck is evenly trimmed. An unevenly trimmed neck will release the bullet inconsistently. Edited January 5, 2014 by moose76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anm2_man Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I trim all my 223 brass every time, so the expander ball doesn't bother me in regards to stretch. I use a F/L die in the first station to decap and partially resize the case, then have the trimmer further along, and a Hornady F/L die raised up in the last station to smooth the neck out and expand slightly. For the way I process brass, this works well. It all goes to stainless tumbler after this process, then I sort out LC brass, FC brass, Winchester brass, and anneal them. The rest becomes blasting ammo. Doesn't the extra sizing following the Trimming operation, change the length of the brass ? If it does, then the length will vary between different types of brass ? Edited January 9, 2014 by anm2_man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I trim all my 223 brass every time, so the expander ball doesn't bother me in regards to stretch. I use a F/L die in the first station to decap and partially resize the case, then have the trimmer further along, and a Hornady F/L die raised up in the last station to smooth the neck out and expand slightly. For the way I process brass, this works well. It all goes to stainless tumbler after this process, then I sort out LC brass, FC brass, Winchester brass, and anneal them. The rest becomes blasting ammo. Doesn't the extra sizing following the Trimming operation, change the length of the brass ? If it does, then the length will vary between different types of brass ? IF you are bumping the shoulder back during the extra sizing step after trimming, yes you are theoretically increasing the length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G29SF Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I find the dillon ball expander too big. Not enough neck tension. I process my range brass like this: Station 1: casefeed Station 2: dillon .223 size/decap/ball-expand Station 3: swage Station 4: no prime Station 5: no powder Station 6: trim with dillon trimmer/trim-die Station 7: no seat Station 8: no crimp Then I load with another toolhead like this: Station 1: casefeed Station 2: nothing Station 3: nothing Station 4: prime Station 5: powder Station 6: powder check Station 7: seat Station 8: crimp Notice I do NOT resize the brass at all after the trimmer. The neck tension is nice and tight. I use boat-tal bullets and have NO problems seating them. Also note that this is for .223 and .308. My process is different for pistol cartridges. I may also be different for other manufacturer's dies and other rifle cartridges. Edited January 12, 2014 by G29SF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) When you load - rifle. Loose the expander "button" idea and die. Add a Lyman "M" die to station #1. It will gently open the case neck, and if you want (more adjustment down) it will also gently (damn little) flare the case mouth (greatly helps with flat based bullets). If you do this the neck will be straight, and the bullet will enter straight. Bullets make damn poor sizers. Damaging the bullet wastes your time and components. The rotational forces on a bullet by the rifling is great. If you tear the jacket, especially a match bullet jacket, with the rough edge of a case mouth, your bullet does not stand a chance. The die is cheap. Edited January 13, 2014 by Doc Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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