TBF Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 WWW.Grafs.com $ 22.95 / 1K + shipping. I had them drop as many as possible in with my powder order and still stay under the max weight for Haz-Mat charges. Indoor shooting with plastic bullets and no toxic vapors. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this is way cool... Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Nope your definately not the only one! Who's rubber bullets are you planning on using with what setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 kewl! I'll be ordering some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harley45 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'd be curious as to what bullets you guys will be using I am going to take a course at Thunder Ranch in the next few months and I see he is now requiring green ammunition on all courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Some company made zinc bullets a few years back. Those might qualify as "green" for outdoor use, I'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 where are these things listed on the website? or are they? At least I don't seem to be able to find any CCI primer at that price on their site. nor any listed as green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Shop by Brand. Select "PMC Primers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 As for Green primers, at one time I bought some Fiocchi leadless primers. They were a pretty good deal as I remember and they worked just fine. This was just before the whole "green" issue came up. That had to be about 5 or 6 years ago though. I bought them locally at a place called "Traders". I don't know if they still carry them. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 ... Thunder Ranch in the next few months and I see he is now requiring green ammunition on all courses. Can someone define "green"? Does that mean encapsulated lead, or no lead whatsoever. (Not that I disagree...just curious here.) The minute I can dump lead in all its forms and get the same performance with some semblance of economy, I will. I want to feel good about taking my little cousins out shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I have no idea what "green" means to Clint Smith. What I want is to shoot indoors regularly during the wet months with a round that minimizes airborne lead exposure. That boils down to a lead free primer for a load using a bullet with a plated or jacketed base. Eric, provided your little cousins are shooting out of doors in the fresh air, only shoot occasionally, aren't deliberately trying to inhale all the smoke of several hundred consecutively fired rounds, don't chew on the ammo, and wash their hands thoroughly after handling ammo/brass and before eating or drinking, their risk of significant lead intake is minimal, even shooting cast bullets. Your friendly Para shootin' Pediatrician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Larry, I ran across some Speer bullets way cheap. Black plastic wadcutters. They reccomend enlarging the flash hole on standard brass and not resizing it. They also do not advise this brass be used for loading standard ammo after the flash hole mod. I now have a use for that pesky NT brass with the small primer hole, and a sure fire way to keep the modified brass out of the general population. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishlad Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I'm loading some of the PMC leadfree primers now in 45. They are a "tad" tighter(larger) than Winchester primers going through the machine and in the case. They do go off ...that's good. But, I'm having trouble getting a 200SWC plated bullet to go the same "speed" using WST. At 4.6 grains(old load with leaded primers) the brass just makes it out of the gun and the recoil is very light. I'm up to the max 5.1gr and recoil is still less than the "old" load. I haven't used a chrono yet, but I don't need to yet. From the unburned powder all over the gun, the primer is clearly not burning everything. At least that's my impression. Perhaps a faster powder and/or a lighter bullet?? I'm not much on experimenting in reloading, to be honest, because I just don't care. Tell me a load that's works and I'll use it. So, I e-mailed tham and we'll see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 You may want to try the magnum primer. I have been loading winchester small rifles with HS6 for .38super and I bought the PMC regular lead free Small Rifle and the magnums as well because I figured that these might be a bit colder than the lead primers. I'll post my results with the magnums as soon as I get out to the range to chrono. External dimensions appear to be identical to the winchesters that I've measured to within the measurement error, .001", of my calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Well, I got to the range today to try some of these out in my .38supercomp open gun. My original load is 8.8 grains of HS6, 124gr MG JHP, Winchester SR Primer, and OAL = 1.235". My experience seems to be opposite of the last posters but since my 170pf loads are probably higher pressure, this may be the reason. The new PMC primers seem to be quite an improvement in a lot of ways to the Winchesters I'm shooting. My only complaint with my HS6 load is how dirty it burns. Well, with the new primers, it burns cleaner than anything I have EVER seen. The once fired starline cases appear shiny and clean inside and out after firing over the chronograph. The velocity data is just as tight as with the old primers but as expected, since the powder is burning completely, I now will be reducing my load by .2 grains to get the same 170pf as before. These actually appear to be signifcanlty hotter than the winchesters in this load. No problems while loading in my 550B, although they were slightly harder to seat. This will be a good thing since the primer pockets on the starline cases are on the large side. Finally, no issues with reliability/sensitivity so far. Overall, I am very enthusiastic about these and will load a couple hundred more to shoot over the next week or so. This is very good news indeed for those of us that have been avoiding indoor shooting because of concerns with lead . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 What I recall about the lead free primers vs. the traditional lead styphnate ones is that the new versions have greater "brissence" (spelling?), which is, I think greater explosive or shattering power. Manufacturers were originally concerned about the greater backthrust of the igniting primer on the base of the primer pocket, and the first cases using them, Winchester, I think, actually had a larger primer hole to compensate. Other manufacturers crimp the primer pocket of their lead free factory loads for the same reason. I guess PMC feels this is not an issue for reloaders using their lead free primers. Still, I wonder if the different brissence affects the flame characteristics of the primer and so changes (increases, according to Larry's tests) the pressure of the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Not quite sure if crimping is neccessary or desirable in this case. I do know that PMC has a whole line of handgun ammo that they load with frangible bullets and these lead free primers. When I was at a store down near atwater a few weeks ago, I checked it out and I don't recall that it had crimped primer pockets. After reading through the current literature on heavy metal free primers, my family expert believes that these are probably made with a perchlorate based explosive which should burn hot and clean. Kevin, if you'd like to try a couple hundred of these let me know and Ill bring them to the richmond match this sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 After reading through the current literature on heavy metal free primers, my family expert believes that these are probably made with a perchlorate based explosive which should burn hot and clean. Wouldn't a perchlorate primer be corrosive? Do the PMC primers say anything about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 NO....PMC says they are completely non-corrosive and non-toxic. Should be no hygroscopic content at all in the original mixture nor in the by products and in fact nothing else to cause any problems. They claim that they exceed all SAAMI specs with a shelf life of well over 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Hmm.. I would have thought that would sorta rule out the use of chlorides and chlorates, but my last chemistry experiments on the subject were a long time ago... maybe they found something that can grab the Cl before it gets to a free Na or H.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 I forget exactly what I read about the residue from these primers , or exactly where I read it ( Maybe at PMC's website ? ) The residue is supposed to be no more toxic than fertilizer. The active ingredient is potassium ( IIRC ). The small pistol size launches the Speer plastic bullets across the basement pretty well... Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kevin, if you'd like to try a couple hundred of these let me know and Ill bring them to the richmond match this sunday. Thanks, Larry. I think I will take you up on the offer. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunshop Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I have had a couple of customers ask me what these are like, they mainly use Federal and they wanted a cheaper alternative to them. Most of the guys shoot USPSA with Small Rifle 40cal & 38Sup and or NRA AP with small pistol 38Sup or 9mm. How hard are they? Are they hotter? Has anyone actually won something using reloads with these primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 How hard are they? This would be hard to measure but I havent had any failures to fire out of my first 500 rounds loaded with them and I have a light titanium firing pin and hammer and a light mainspring as well. Are they hotter? My original 38super load uses 124gr MGJHPs, HS6 powder, and winchester small rifle primers. Loading identical load with PMC green SR primers gives me approximately 40fps more velocity and it burns MUCH cleaner. They are about $5.00 more per 1000, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I'm loading some of the PMC leadfree primers now in 45.They are a "tad" tighter(larger) than Winchester primers going through the machine and in the case. They do go off ...that's good. But, I'm having trouble getting a 200SWC plated bullet to go the same "speed" using WST. At 4.6 grains(old load with leaded primers) the brass just makes it out of the gun and the recoil is very light. I'm up to the max 5.1gr and recoil is still less than the "old" load. I haven't used a chrono yet, but I don't need to yet. From the unburned powder all over the gun, the primer is clearly not burning everything. At least that's my impression. Perhaps a faster powder and/or a lighter bullet?? I'm not much on experimenting in reloading, to be honest, because I just don't care. Tell me a load that's works and I'll use it. So, I e-mailed tham and we'll see what they say. you might want to give titegroup a try. it was supposed to be made just for lead free primers and such.. in my area, indoor ranges really dont exist. and the ones that are operating probably dont know lead is toxic FYI the range in question is known for selling guns without a FFL.. It only pissed off the FBI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Are they hotter? Larry Cazes wrote: My original 38super load uses 124gr MGJHPs, HS6 powder, and winchester small rifle primers. Loading identical load with PMC green SR primers gives me approximately 40fps more velocity and it burns MUCH cleaner. They are about $5.00 more per 1000, though. *** I just ran a comparison of the PMC NTSR's you gave me, Larry, with Winchester primers. My numbers came out differently: Limited match load: 5.1 gr VV320 using a MG180grJHP at 1.197 COL, 25 rounds each tested (all loaded consecutively at the same session, same components otherwise). NTSR - 896 fps, SD 20.8 WSP - 946 fps, SD 8.9 WSR - 953 fps, SD 6.5 Practice load: 4.6 gr UC using a Meister 175grSWC at 1.135, 25 rounds each. NTSR - 986 fps, SD 19.8 WSP - 989 fps, SD 14.6 FWIW, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now