spook Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Hi everyone, Lately I noticed the brass in my S&W 625 would crack a lot. So, I checked my load, just to be sure. I was loading 5.2grains (max.load) of N320 behind a 225 grain copper plated Frontier bullet. OAL was a tad below what the VV guide said (VV says 1.260". I loaded to 1.240"). I got an average of 180 PF with this load. So, I figured the pressure was too high because the COL was too short. I increase the COL to 1.260". Now, the trouble part starts: Recently I was fortunate enough to get a sponsorship from Vihtavuori. I got 12 lbs. of N320 from them. I did not change my press, but I get 5.3grain per throw instead of 5.2grain. Probably small difference between lot numbers. So, with the new COL and new powder, I thought it was a good time to chrono. The results did not make me happy. Avg. Velocity is now 755 fps (169 PF and I need 170) Lowest is 738 and highest is 777. What should I do? Should I go back to a 1.240 COL? Should I raise the powdercharge even more (it's already above the max. book load ) Change of components is not an option, as I just received 10,000 bullets and 12lbs. of powder (hooray for sponsorship ) BTW, with the new COL and powder, I DO make major in my other "not-so-worn-out" 625. I intend to use this new revolver next year in matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANeat Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Looks to me like you have 3 options. 1) Reduce the OAL to get the PF back up to where it should be 2) Up the powder charge, if getting close to or going over max charge bothers you dont do it. 3) Go ahead and start using the newer gun Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 what Adam says is pretty much the choices. Look for major signs of pressure primer flow etc. I don't look at max as max in most calibers. I look at it as a good starting point, but I shoot open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 "max" in a reloading book is hardly up to SAAMI specs. like Kingman said. check the primer. if it's not whowing pressure signs badly just shoot it. HOw much more Velocity/PF you getting with the "not so worn out" gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 Wow thanks for the fast replies guys! I figured that the max load in the book was just there to avoid lawsuits Adam, your suggestion of using the newer gun makes a lot of sense But my old gun feels so good. The new gun has sticky chambers and it's harder to open and close. Ah hell, I think I'm just too darn attatched to my old gun. Steve and Kingman, I'm not getting any signs of overpressure. And I also figured that a .45ACP gun built on a frame that can handle full house .44 mags should be able to take a little extra Thanks! BTW Steve, the new gun gives me an average of 40 fps more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 the new gun gives me an average of 40 fps more! Unfortunate, but hardly uncommon. Lots of guys joke about slow barrels. After your 12lb's is gone, you may want to take a look at N310. Wilson guns uses that powder to test .45 loads in all of their guns. If you call them, they will tell you what the recipe is, they were very nice and talked alot about the load. I lost it, or I would tell you. If you are not already, you may want to try large rifle or magnum primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 .40AET, thanks. I cannot use other primers, because I would have to increase the trigger pull of my revolver. I don't know if my barrel is slow, or just worn out. Or perhaps the B/C gap is too wide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I wasn't implying that your barrel is slow, but there is a lot of tooling in good nature about slow vs. fast barrels. What primers are you using? If you stay in pistol size and the same manufacturer, but go up to magnums, you should not need to increase your hammer mainspring. With CCI primers there was no noticable hardness difference between small pistol and small pistol magnum primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 i have a feeling hes using federal larger pistol primers.. large rifle primers and large pistol primers are more different than the small ones.. If you try large rifle primers in your 45, youll find they wont seat flush with the case head.. With the smith 625 revolver, youll probably see God before you see pressure signs..even a load thats well over max will still have rounded edges on the primer.. looking for pressure signs with a 45 is like looking for pressure signs with a 12 gauge shotgun..youll see the white lights of the hospital or the pearly gates before you see a primer flow. GOOD LUCK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerT Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 With the smith 625 revolver, youll probably see God before you see pressure signs..even a load thats well over max will still have rounded edges on the primer..looking for pressure signs with a 45 is like looking for pressure signs with a 12 gauge shotgun..youll see the white lights of the hospital or the pearly gates before you see a primer flow. GOOD LUCK! Hi all. As I'm new to reload .45 in a revo, how do you test for overpressure? Is measuring the OD of the case near the bottom as in rifle reloading a good method? or is that "too late" too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Spook, I gave a look at the VV reloading guide for .45 Auto, and it says that the test barrel was 6", instead of the 5" of your revolver (I guess). Thus, I think you might be safe in loading to COL 1.260" and bumping up the load a couple of tenths... I'll try to find some info in my gunzines collection this evening on the typical loads of the italian revo guys (or ask forum member Sensei), and will post the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 large rifle primers and large pistol primers are more different than the small ones..If you try large rifle primers in your 45, youll find they wont seat flush with the case head.. Got it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Harmongreer, you're right. I use LP150s. And you were also right on the pressure signs. There are none. I guess I'll just bump up the load for my old gun Sky said (I can't get used to the new gun). Sky, I thought Sensei used N310? But if you have any valuable data, I'd love to hear it. Thanks guys. Damn! The people on these forums and all the info keep amazing me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerT Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Hi all and Spook. I use lead round nose bullets of 232 gn weight, VV 320 and Federal LP primers, I load 4.2 gn and 1.220 OAL, and the velocity is 770 fps, PF 178!! It burns clean and groups well and a margin of 8 in PF is OK, right? Chrono testing done at ambient temperature of 40 F, so the load is winter proof as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 Sounds good Roger! But doesn't the lead foul your revolver? After 3 clips of lead ammo, I can't reload it anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerT Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Well, yes and no. I have shoot a buddies reloads, 200 gn SWC loaded to 270 m/s and shot ca 200 of them without problems, it get's dirty but the clips fall in without a hitch. But SWC are no fun to reload a revo with so I thought I use the bullets that came along with the buy of the press. Now with these 230 gn round nose bullets I get "sticky" rounds but not beacuse of dirt but rather beacuse of bulging cartridges, they swell a lot were the bullet is seated, I have started a separate thread about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 Well, at least for matches, I'd switch to copper plated or something. Check out inexpensive brands like Frontier or Berry's. They're fast on the reloads and cost about as much as the lead stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensei Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Harmongreer, you're right. I use LP150s. And you were also right on the pressure signs. There are none. I guess I'll just bump up the load for my old gun Sky said (I can't get used to the new gun).Sky, I thought Sensei used N310? But if you have any valuable data, I'd love to hear it. Thanks guys. Damn! The people on these forums and all the info keep amazing me I Spook, you said right, i use the N310. It is a good choice for me, expecially with 230 grs. bullet. My load data is: N310 x 4,60 grs. 228 grs. plated bullet (no fmj) Federal primer Large pistol 150 Hoal = 31,50 mm. Power factor about 177-178. Note: I have started with a different charge of N310, but with an Official RO chrono, i had a bad surprise (it was 4,40 grs. of N310). Another thing is: with this kind of plated bullet i have to increase the powder, that i usually put with an FMJ bullet. You can try a "gap" from 4,40 to 4,70 of N310, (i did it, at first) without ANY over pressure sign on my brass. I like a fast powder, in the .45, because i feel the barrel don't jump like a slowest powder, it is very clean and accurate. The biggest difference are when you shoot double taps, the revo "find the time" of the doubles, faster than using a slow powder, for a fast shooter (... like the European Champ ....), i think it is a very important advantage, ..... your finger will wait a minor time of trigger pull. Let me know if it works good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks Sensei. I'll check the 310 out as soon as I run out of 320 (But I still have about 5kg, so it may take a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Spook, I didn't forget you, I'm just trying to figure out where the h@#l has that issue of "Armi e Tiro" gone. It's incredible...my reloading room is 1.5x3.5 m, and there are only 4 shelves (ok, from floor to ceiling, I'll admit it), but I am still not able to find it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Spook, I bet with as much practice as you must have been doing your old gun needs a new barrel, have them set it back to elimate excess gap at the same time.Your loads will come back to where you were or you may even have to cut them a little bit. 175 or 180 pf should be a snap with that gun.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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