Starting young shooters on dominant eye side

[NicVerAZ]

My two daughters are left-eye dominant while they are right-handed.

I realized this tonight while doing dry fire practice and looking at what they were doing: closing their right eyes while shooting right-handed.

I had them switch to a left-handed grip and immediately they got better results (we used a Laserlyte).

Am I right to believe that young shooters, especially when inexperienced, should start using the hand on the same side as their dominant eye as dominant hand?

I advised a lady friend, left-handed but right-eye dominant, to switch, as she was using her left hand as her dominant, and she improved as well. She was also quite new to shooting.

Thanks for your input.

[rhgunguy]

It seems like a little scotch tape over the lens of the dominate eye would be easier...

Edited November 17, 2013 by rhgunguy

[AWLAZS]

I know lots of people that shoot rifle left handed because they are left eye dominant.

[Jshuberg]

There is absolutely no reason to switch either which hand or which eye they use. Don't use tape, or do anything fancy. Simply line up the sights with the dominant eye, and that's it. People tend to make a big deal out of this, but its not.

If for some reason you feel that it's necessary to use the eye and hand on the same side of the body, switching eyes is significantly easier than switching hands. A persons eye isn't dominant in the same way their hand is. A right handed person actually has more synapses dedicated to controlling their hand in the motor cortex. A left eyed person is simply where the brain prefers one eye over the other, but is perfectly capable of using either equally as well (under normal circumstances). It's a difference between sensory input verses motor control, and the two shouldn't be confused. The Bindon Aiming Concept is based on the ability to dynamically shift which eye the brain prefers on demand.

I actually tend to believe that it may be easier for a right handed left eyed person to learn to shoot. The reason is that the left hand is at a very slightly straighter angle horizontally than the right in order to line up the sights. This slight difference in orientation helps to emphasize that the left hand is responsible for driving the pistol, while the right hand is responsible for controlling the trigger. I suspect that the slightly straighter left wrist allows control to be more easily transferred to the support hand, emphasizing the separation of concerns for each hand. I myself am right handed and left eye dominant. I shoot pistol with my left eye, and rifle with my right. If I'm using an ACOG, I switch which eye I'm using to shift between 0X and 4X magnification in my head. Cross dominance is in no way a problem that needs to be solved.

If when a person switches eyes/hands and they improve, it's likely not because cross dominance is bad and needs correcting, but evidence of a problem that may otherwise go undiagnosed for some time. It's likely that they are primarily supporting/driving/controlling the gun with their weapon hand. Rather than solving a cross dominance issue, you should teach them that as soon as the support hand establishes its grip, that the support hand takes the lead in controlling the gun. All the weapon hand does is assist the support hand, and operate the trigger.

Hope this helps.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Jshuberg

[jib]

Let them use their dominant eye. I am also Left eye dominant, but right handed. I shoot pistol righty by turning my head every so slightly to the right. This lines up the sights correctly and they will do it instinctively. I have always shot pistols righty.

When I started with shotguns, we immediately identified the cross domination. Switching to shooting lefty worked better than shading my left eye and forcing my right eye to take over. All things being equal, I'd rather shoot long guns righty, as more guns are biased for rightys, but I played around with both rifles and shotguns for a while before settling in lefty. It just worked better for me, especially with movement, like for trap and skeet. Rifle target shooting was OK righty, if I covered my left eye, but I made the decision to shoot all long guns lefty, as I could do it with both eyes open. It's all very natural and works well. Training my left hand trigger finger was simple. I spent a lot of time treating a click style pen like a trigger; Click-click, click-click. . . . . .

jack

Edited November 18, 2013 by jib

[MarkCO]

They really should be using their dominant eye. You might have them experiment a little with several of the methods as mentioned above.

Shoot left handed. Shift the firearm over to the left and shoot right handed. Cant the head to the sights. I prefer them in this order.

I am right eye dominant and left handed and I shoot right handed. But, I always do well in the support side required shooting challenges.

[Jshuberg]

I'd suggest turning your hands to line up the sights rather than turning the head. Bring the gun to the eye, not the eye to the gun. Turning the gun a few degrees to the right to line up the sights with the left eye results in the angle of the support side wrist being slightly straighter (horizontally wise) than the weapon hand, which is what I was suggesting in my previous post may result in the brain more easily transferring control of the weapon to the support hand.

When controlling an object with two hands, one of them is always the "lead" hand. This is normally the dominant hand, unless the non-dominant hand is in a better position. When shooting a pistol with two hands, the lead hand should be the support hand for all control, except of course operation of the trigger.

The idea is that if the subconscious feels that the purchase on the weapon is "better", or more direct with the support hand, it will tend to give that hand the lead. It's like when you're carrying something large and bulky. If your non-dominant hand has a better grip, has a more direct purchase, or is less awkward, the brain naturally transfers the lead in controlling the object to that hand. When your support hand is straighter, even when only a few degrees more than the angle of your weapon hand, the brain will more readily allow the transfer to the support hand, or at least resist it less. Thats my belief anyways - I know of no research or testing that states this - it's just my own observation being cross dominant myself.

Many trigger control errors resulting from sympathetic muscle movement are the result of the weapon hand leading the control of the weapon in addition to operating the trigger. By transferring control of the weapon to the support hand, and letting the weapon hand be responsible for trigger control only, these sympathetic muscle motions are greatly minimized, resulting in greater accuracy. A lot of people go death grip on the weapon to minimize trigger errors, when simply teaching yourself to transfer control of the weapon to the support hand the instant your support hand establishes it's grip is a *much* better way to solve this problem. If you have two hands on the gun, each hand should play a diferent role in operating the gun. There should be a distinct separation of concerns in what each hand is responsible for, and being cross dominant can (I believe) assist learning how to do this properly.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Jshuberg

[MarkCO]

Don't cant the gun! One of the principles of being able to call the sights is a repeatable tracking of the sights. Straight up and straight down is the way to do that consistently. Canted results in less accuracy and less speed.

[Jshuberg]

I'm not suggesting canting the gun in the hands, but canting the hands to the eye. Regardless of which hand/eye combination is being used, your hands *are* slightly canted one direction a few degrees, since you don't have an eye in the center of your forehead. Whether you line the sights up with your left or your right eye doesn't matter, your hands are already turned slightly from dead center. This has absolutely no effect on the ability to track the sights, speed or accuracy, except that it may make it easier for the brain to give control to the weapon hand.

Edit - Perhaps I should go into what I'm trying to describe a little more, since without pictures or being able to demonstrate it visually, what I've written can be easily misunderstood.

We have all been taught that the proper way to grip the pistol with the weapon hand is so the pistol is perfectly in line with the bones of the forearm. This works great if you are standing sideways with your head turned so that your weapon side eye, front and rear sights make a perfect line directly above the arm. The thing is, most people don't shoot this way anymore except for bullseye guys. The way most people shoot these days is a two handed grip in a variation of an isosceles stance. In this stance, the pistol is *not* directly in line with the weapon side forearm, nor is it perfectly straight between the two hands. For a right handed shooter, the hands are slightly canted so that the sights line up with the right eye. The weapon side wrist is straighter than the support side, but it is canted slightly towards the right eye.

If a person is left eye dominant, the angle of the wrists is simply reversed, resulting in the support side hand being slightly straigter than the weapon side. The pistol is not in line with either forearm, nor is it perfectly centered. The hands are always slightly canted towards one eye. Which eye doesn't matter, as the deviation from the "perfect" grip is exactly the same, its just a matter of which direction the hands are canted to line up the sights with that eye.

I think the misunderstanding occurs because people tend to think of the relationship and orientation of the weapon relative to their weapon hand, which when cross dominant is a greater deviation away from the "perfect" grip of the pistol being in line with the weapon side forearm. In a two handed grip though, this doesn't matter as the angle of the pistol relative to the *support* forearm is the same for a cross dominant shooter as the angle of the pistol relative to the weapon forearm for a right handed and right eyed shooter. Provided you have a nice solid uniform grip, the behavior of the weapon in the hands is exactly the same regardless of which wrist is straighter. The same amount of deviation from "perfect" exists, its just relative to the support hand for the cross dominant shooter.

My earlier observation that it may actually be a benefit to be cross dominant is precisely because the weapon is now more in line with the support hand forearm than the weapon hand forearm, resulting in the support hand more naturally taking the lead in controlling the weapon. This results in a more natural separation of concerns of the hands, and minimizes sympathetic muscle motion disturbing the position of the pistol when squeezing the trigger.

The only time shooting this way would be a negative is when shooting one handed. Without a support hand, the deviation of the angle of the wrist away from "perfect" is greater, which may result in slightly more difficulty in tracking or returning the sights to proper alignment quickly. This really isn't too big a deal either though because the amount of additional cant is very small and is very manageable with practice. A person could also simply switch eyes when shooting one handed, or simply turn their body at an angle to the target (as opposed to straight on) to minimize the additional deviation from "perfect".

I hope this makes sense........

Edited November 18, 2013 by Jshuberg

[OrigamiAK]

My preference with a pistol is also to let the shooter use their dominant eye and dominant hand, and simply put the gun in front of the dominant eye.

[thermobollocks]

I see the best results from people who use whichever hand matches the dominant eye. That's how I teach in basic pistol, as well. I see longtime shooters who shoot better than they have in their entire lives once they correct the hand issue.

Eye dominance indeed does not work the same way as hand dominance, and that's why taping the dominant eye is a poor solution. The dominant eye provides position information and the non-dominant eye supports, providing information necessary for depth perception. A cross-dominant person using the dominant hand is also going to have to contend with less than optimal arm positioning -- it takes more bending to get the left hand in front of the right eye than the right hand in front of the right eye. Because trigger control is a learned skill, it becomes far more efficient to train trigger control on the arm that has the best possible mechanics.

[rishii]

If they are brand new to shooting, they are learning a new skill, so have no habits to unlearn

I read an article years ago about the British bullpup assault rifle, it must be shot off your right shoulder, because if you shoot it off your left, you'll block the ejection port. It doesn't matter which is you dominate eye, right or left handed, you're shooting it with your right hand and right eye. The way the Brits feel, is because guns are banned, shooting is a new skill, and they will teach you how to shoot

Their way

Now back to your daughters, if they are getting better results shooting with their left hand, then you can teach them to do everything else with their right, and vis versa

I would find what works best for them individually and go from there

I got a buddy who is a awesome rifle shooter and is cross dominate,left eye, right handed, started shooting handguns right handed,

And did ok, switched his left hand improved greatly

[Jshuberg]

The vast majotity of equiptment is setup for the right handed shooter. If they are already right handed, switching to the left hand to solve a *perceived* problem with the dominance of the eyes is a very bad idea. Once again, it is *much* easier to learn to favor the other eye than it is to switch hands. Sensory input vs. motor control. If you hold to the belief that cross dominance is a problem that needs to be solved, solve it with the eyes and not the hands.

If a cross dominant shooter discovers that they shoot better with their non-dominant hand, IMHO it's almost certainly because of some other issue with their technique, as there are plenty of extremely proficient shooters that are cross dominant, and use both their dominant hand and eye without the slightest bit of trouble. I believe that cross dominance being the reason that explains why a person might shoot better with their non dominant hand is in fact a misdiagnosis. I would personally suspect that the individual was both controlling the weapon and operating the trigger with the same hand when using their dominant hand in a two handed grip. When they switched to their non-dominant hand, they were continuing to control their weapon with their dominant (support) hand, while operating the trigger with their non-dominant (weapon) hand. It is most likely the reason for improvement is not that the hand and eye being used need to be on the same side, but that by shooting with their non-dominant hand they have increased the separation of concerns of the hands - although in this case those concerns have been reversed. A person shooting with a separation of concerns of the hands will suffer trigger errors from sympathetic muscle movement to a much smaller degree than a shooter whose dominant hand implements both concerns.

Here is an experiment for other instructors to test - if you have a student that is experiencing problems you believe are the result of sympathetic muscle movement, milking the grip etc. have them reverse hands temporarily. Unless the shooter is cross dominant, it probably wouldn't occur to anyone to try this, but my hypothesis is that a person who is not cross dominant who is experiencing these kinds of trigger control or grip issues *will* see improvement by switching to their non-dominant hand. The reason again is a separation of concerns of the hands. I wouldn't fix the problem this way, but it could be a very good way to verify the diagnosis. The proper solution would be a correction of the underlying trigger/grip issue, and then learning to transfer the control of the weapon to the support (non-dominant) hand to minimize any trigger or grip errors that do occur.

One last thing - if when a person switches between eyes they move the location of their hands in space to do so, they are not shooting with symmetrical arms in a proper isosceles triangle. Switching eyes is accomplished by simply changing the angle of the wrists. The POA changes when you do this, but this is solved by simply turning the upper body a few degrees back to the target. The change in upper body position to align POA behind the sights is barely perceptible, and doesn't effect the operation or behavior of the weapon in any way. Moving your hands in front of you to align the sights with the same POA without moving the upper body results in a significant deviation from a proper isosceles triangle with the arms, and *will* effect the operation and behavior of the pistol. Shooting this way would simply be harder to master than when shooting with the arms in a proper isosceles triangle. The location of the grip of the pistol should be as perfectly centered directly in front of your nose as possible, with the wrists slightly canted so the sights line up with the dominant eye. Which eye is dominant doesn't matter, as the amount of deviation from "perfect" is exactly the same, just in the other direction.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Jshuberg