3 Gun Nation Outlaw Matches?

[Zeps]

Are the 4 Regionals/Semipro open to the Pros? Seems like that'd be unfair for people trying to move up

[GM2B]

Are the 4 Regionals/Semipro open to the Pros? Seems like that'd be unfair for people trying to move up

Now thats a good quesiton! Not only do they take the best prizes but they also mess up the curve and depending on which Pro shows up determines your overall percentage...

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Are the 4 Regionals/Semipro open to the Pros? Seems like that'd be unfair for people trying to move up

Now thats a good quesiton! Not only do they take the best prizes but they also mess up the curve and depending on which Pro shows up determines your overall percentage...

That was the inherent problem I saw with getting 3GunNation Semi-Pro points from major matches this year. Of course, I'm not sure how the logistics of extracting only the semi-pro shooters scores from those matches would have worked to end up with semi-pro points winners from each major match.

[Bryan 45]

Case in point.....I'll give you two examples and lets see if anyone gets butthurt here as a social experiment.

1: Fallen Brethren.... I personally did NOT have a problem shooting the LaRue targets at Fallen Brethren. I knew the match I was going to and shot 69gr SMK projectiles at EVERY target in that match. The LaRue targets fell for me on every shot. Those who were shooting 55gr FMJ bulk ammo at 300 yards, hitting low on the target, were upset about the RO's being able to consistently call hits when the targets weren't falling. I agree that regular steel targets are better suited for 3-gun, but bringing the right ammo for the match would have seemed the smart thing to do.

2: Blue Ridge.... I'd like to know if there would be any actual BIG change in how people placed if that match was scored like all the other matches that use time plus scoring. Is that used as a mental thing to make the match difficult, or Andy Horners way of punishing people who don't shoot USPSA? REAL questions, and here is a little secret....I didn't care if I hit A's and had more fun not worrying about it.

Since this thread has derailed a few times in the past 6 pages, I don't feel the least bit guilty about taking it taking it off track again.

1- I've shot major matches with little guns for the past two years or a little better and have yet to fire a rifle round other than 55g FMJ at a major- and this includes BRM3G and shooting out to 490 at Texas Multigun. I wasn't at FB and don't know the particulars, but I think it's unreasonable for the answer to be "shoulda used heavier bullets." Hitting too low on the target on the other hand is an acceptable answer, just like hitting the arm on a MGM flasher won't make it swing.

2- Andy Horner has been running this match using this scoring for 6 years, and Fort Benning used it too if I remember correctly. It's his way of saying accuracy is important. Don't like the penalties? Don't shoot sloppy.

Edit to add- my butt doesn't hurt, just countering your points. And that's not the same kind of that Kurt has been giving Jesse when he replies. It's a real

Edited November 11, 2013 by Bryan 45

[Jesse Tischauser]

Are the 4 Regionals/Semipro open to the Pros? Seems like that'd be unfair for people trying to move up

You bet your a$$ they are! Heck I wouldn't doubt if the regional matches become the Pro Series in a few years. I think the cool natural terrain shooting is more entertaining to watch than the run and gun bay stuff anyways.

[GM2B]

55's have about 25% more wind drift and about 33% less energy than 77's. The knockdown targets should be calibrated with a 55FMJ center mass hit.

[Jesse Tischauser]

The knockdown targets should be calibrated with a 55FMJ worst possible hit. That way if you hit the targets you get credit for it. Even if you hit it on the edge or low or high or wherever it's hardest to make the target react.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[Chuck Anderson]

Are the 4 Regionals/Semipro open to the Pros? Seems like that'd be unfair for people trying to move up

Nah, Jesse is going to shoot all 4 so that will even them all up when he wins each one.

[Chuck Anderson]

Isn't Chuck just the best? He is the nicest, most sensitive, greatest guy ever! Hey it DOES work! Thanks Uncle Chuck

Uncle, hell if I was older than you...well I'd be Benny's age.

[Zeps]

Are the 4 Regionals/Semipro open to the Pros? Seems like that'd be unfair for people trying to move up

Nah, Jesse is going to shoot all 4 so that will even them all up when he wins each one.

Lol very true

[GM2B]

The knockdown targets should be calibrated with a 55FMJ worst possible hit. That way if you hit the targets you get credit for it. Even if you hit it on the edge or low or high or wherever it's hardest to make the target react.

I guess that does make sense Jessie. I think they could mitigate the problem by using a taller steel plate in the front of the bottom of the target. Thus making each hit higher on the target giving it more leverage to knock over the target.

[Jesse Tischauser]

The knockdown targets should be calibrated with a 55FMJ worst possible hit. That way if you hit the targets you get credit for it. Even if you hit it on the edge or low or high or wherever it's hardest to make the target react.

I guess that does make sense Jessie. I think they could mitigate the problem by using a taller steel plate in the front of the bottom of the target. Thus making each hit higher on the target giving it more leverage to knock over the target.

Hitting a steel plate that isn't the target and hearing the steal ring is part of the problem. I saw several arguments on the clock about whether the shooter was hitting the base or the lower part of the target. If your hitting steal it should be the target and it should be reacting or falling down.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Case in point.....I'll give you two examples and lets see if anyone gets butthurt here as a social experiment.

1: Fallen Brethren.... I personally did NOT have a problem shooting the LaRue targets at Fallen Brethren. I knew the match I was going to and shot 69gr SMK projectiles at EVERY target in that match. The LaRue targets fell for me on every shot. Those who were shooting 55gr FMJ bulk ammo at 300 yards, hitting low on the target, were upset about the RO's being able to consistently call hits when the targets weren't falling. I agree that regular steel targets are better suited for 3-gun, but bringing the right ammo for the match would have seemed the smart thing to do.

2: Blue Ridge.... I'd like to know if there would be any actual BIG change in how people placed if that match was scored like all the other matches that use time plus scoring. Is that used as a mental thing to make the match difficult, or Andy Horners way of punishing people who don't shoot USPSA? REAL questions, and here is a little secret....I didn't care if I hit A's and had more fun not worrying about it.

Since this thread has derailed a few times in the past 6 pages, I don't feel the least bit guilty about taking it taking it off track again.

1- I've shot major matches with little guns for the past two years or a little better and have yet to fire a rifle round other than 55g FMJ at a major- and this includes BRM3G and shooting out to 490 at Texas Multigun. I wasn't at FB and don't know the particulars, but I think it's unreasonable for the answer to be "shoulda used heavier bullets." Hitting too low on the target on the other hand is an acceptable answer, just like hitting the arm on a MGM flasher won't make it swing.

2- Andy Horner has been running this match using this scoring for 6 years, and Fort Benning used it too if I remember correctly. It's his way of saying accuracy is important. Don't like the penalties? Don't shoot sloppy.

Edit to add- my butt doesn't hurt, just countering your points. And that's not the same kind of that Kurt has been giving Jesse when he replies. It's a real

hahaha about the

1....I'm not saying that calibrating the targets to 55fmj is wrong (and flat out agree that those targets are awesome....for sniper training, but not 3-gun).....but I learned from watching people shoot them last year (and complain) when I shot that match in Heavy, so when I went there for this year I knew to not bring 55gr. Guys who shot there last year were still making comments about it. THEY had a complaint or criticism about the match, that may or may not have been expressed clearly, so nothing changed. I was not confident that the targets wouldn't be there due to criticism, so I planned ahead. (SOMEONE ELSE'S CRITICISM between shooters at a match)

2....MY CRITICISM that was less expressed to other shooters at the match. I'm not saying he should change it, or that it would be a reason I wouldn't come back, it's just what I didn't like about the match. I'm still shooting for fun, and the match was fun....I just had more fun when I wanted to go fast and let the scores fall where they will.

I knew that criticism...whether mine or someone else's, would garner responses quickly. Point is that the perception for a lot of us is keep your criticisms of matches to yourselves, say something positive and tell everyone how awesome they are.

Edited November 11, 2013 by EaZeNuTZ33

[MarkCO]

Oh no, now you brought up the painted falling plates thing again. Like I tell me kids, sometimes it is fun to spray water at the cat, but you better have a med kit just in case.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Oh no, now you brought up the painted falling plates thing again. Like I tell me kids, sometimes it is fun to spray water at the cat, but you better have a med kit just in case.

That's one thing I can agree with Kurt on is falling steel is the only target is the best way to go.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Oh no, now you brought up the painted falling plates thing again. Like I tell me kids, sometimes it is fun to spray water at the cat, but you better have a med kit just in case.

Do you have a youtube video of this......or am I going to have to find a cat to spray with water to see what happens?

[ClutchUSMC]

Oh no, now you brought up the painted falling plates thing again. Like I tell me kids, sometimes it is fun to spray water at the cat, but you better have a med kit just in case.

That's one thing I can agree with Kurt on is falling steel is the only target is the best way to go.

Amen!

[Jesse Tischauser]

Looks like the prize table is already pretty big.

http://3gunnation.com/news/details/artmid/509/articleid/243489/3gn-regional-championships-land-100-guns-for-prize-tables

[AustinT]

Are we really going to have to do this again? My 75gr Hornadys at 2665 fps weren't putting the LaRues down. Reliably weren't putting the LaRues down. I was hardly the only one, as you can attest to because we were on the same squad.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Are we really going to have to do this again? My 75gr Hornadys at 2665 fps weren't putting the LaRues down. Reliably weren't putting the LaRues down. I was hardly the only one, as you can attest to because we were on the same squad.

Was simply making a point about criticisms not always being welcomed. I witnessed lots of issues with the LaRue targets (some never came back up when they did fall), and did not weight everyone's ammo to see what they were shooting. Most of the complaints I heard about them were from people's conversations OUTside of our squad when we were waiting to shoot other stages or before the prize table,..... and I was happy to hear they weren't going to be used next year and they listened to the complaints AT the match. On here, and other forums, there is an expectation to keep criticism to yourself.

[blu46and2]

Are we really going to have to do this again? My 75gr Hornadys at 2665 fps weren't putting the LaRues down. Reliably weren't putting the LaRues down. I was hardly the only one, as you can attest to because we were on the same squad.

+1, I was shooting 69gr at 2800fps and hitting them dead center on the 200yd targets and they were not falling down....

[csole]

Many thanks to the Remington, Bushmaster, Para USA and DPMS for supporting the 3GN Regional.. the table just ot reaaly big...more to come folks

http://3gunnation.com/news/details/artmid/509/articleid/243489/3gn-regional-championships-land-100-guns-for-prize-tables

[kurtm]

Hey I really like cat,s Mark you should know better than to spray them with water , it makes them stringy and tough. They are much better marinated in Italian dressing and then lightly fried in Olive Oil

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Hey I really like cat,s Mark you should know better than to spray them with water , it makes them stringy and tough. They are much better marinated in Italian dressing and then lightly fried in Olive Oil

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Now that the thread is officially derailed........what do you guys think of the new BoomFab Bolt Carriers? Handled one in Illinois this weekend and it was light and looked blingy!

[kurtm]

A gentleman never handles one and talks about it ....note real smiley....just for you Bryan!