Suicycle Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I was browsing the new rule book This Morning And Noticed That Steel Guide Rods Are Ssp Legal But AdaptorS Are Not. WOuld ThaT Mean That All Gen 4 Guns HaveTo Run The STock AssemblY Or Be Esp? I AM Asking Because Of A Polymer JagEr ROd, OR The Possibility Of Running Steel. Sorry About Random Caps, Smart Phone IS Giving Me Hell TryingTo And Fix It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) All I know is that Jager SAYS their polymer single spring rod for Gen 4 is IDPA SSP compliant. They do not make the claim for their steel rod. MY Glock is a Gen 1 and works properly so I have not had to be sure about such stuff. Edited November 5, 2013 by Jim Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicycle Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 And They Made That Claim Before Steel Guid Rods Were Ok, Or The Adapters Claim In The New RuleS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&W686 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I did not know that steel guide rods where ok for SSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicycle Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Reading The New Rule Book They Are, But The Excluded Mods Include Reducers Or Wording That Makes Me Think The Jager Rods Would Be Because Of The Bushing At The Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 This is a post I made on another forum a month ago... I still haven't gotten an answer from Robert Ray. In short, if I was the CSO in charge of equipment checks, I would allow you to shoot a Jager captured single guide rod in a gen4 glock. I called Robert back many times but he wouldn't take my calls. As a matter of fact, soon after I made those calls, the email went out about the rules clarification process. About a month ago... I spoke to Robert Ray a few minutes ago, regarding the 8.2.1.4.5. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design. This rule was specifically written for the people who want to convert their gen4 recoil springs to gen3. However it was written so that you cannot install an "insert" in the end of the slide to accept the original gen3 spring. Because you can "see" the insert on the exterior of the slide. It looks like a small SS bushing, which would be visible on the exterior of a Glock 17/22 or smaller. You would have to look down throught the slide of the Glock 34/35 to see and probably have to use a flashlight. Robert didn't realize that Jager makes a captured guide rod (ie. like the gen3 guide rod) that fits into a gen4. The captured end is larger to accomodate the larger opening of the gen4, but is an internal component. Robert couldn't give me an answer, he told me to call back tomorrow. And I will. But then you must consider.... if you ever change the guide rod (did I mention "ever"?) with anything other than the OEM guide rod you are moved to ESP. right? I did ask Robert about using a STEEL guide rod in a Glock in SSP, he did say it is legal, and that rule is primarily there for Glock shooters. But wait, if the STEEL guide rod is visible at the end of the slide doesn't that cause it to move to ESP? hmmmmm? I will call him back tomorrow and keep you updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Reading The New Rule Book They Are, But The Excluded Mods Include Reducers Or Wording That Makes Me Think The Jager Rods Would Be Because Of The Bushing At The Front. The new Jager guide rods for gen4 Glocks do not use bushings. Originally, Jager made a bushing that would fit in the slide to accept a gen3 guide rod and they may still make this. The new guide rods are captured, no bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicycle Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 What shipped to me last week had a doughnut that would slide the length of the rod and also had a washer for use with certain springs. I would call the piece a bushing, but it is from looking at other rods in the past and just a glance at web images. This might have been new old stock that I received also. There was a difference in that it would contain the piece and the Zev rod that was captured would not capture the bushing that I bought for my 21. The screw just captured the spring on it. I guess it is clearer since I have a comparison rod from another manufacturer and see how things can be called captured and bushings when they all look the same when on the rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike62 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Thats what mine looks like too, just got it this week. Hope its legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianphoto Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Wanted to put in my $.02 for my 1st post. I shot my first sanctioned IDPA and I shot SSP. I checked with the match director at my local matches. He stated it was legal. Since I trust him, I shot the match with a stainless steel guide rod. When it was my turn to inspect my G34, they questioned me on this issue. I pulled out a copy of the new rules and they went to the director. Ruling was that it is legal in SSP according to new rulebook. The rule states, "8.2.1.3.4. Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel." As long as the guide rod "no heavier" it's OK. But if I'm wrong please let me know. Thanks and hope to learn more in the forum. Ian FYI- I placed 5th in SSP-MM Edited November 14, 2013 by ianphoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjz Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Wanted to put in my $.02 for my 1st post. I shot my first sanctioned IDPA and I shot SSP. I checked with the match director at my local matches. He stated it was legal. Since I trust him, I shot the match with a stainless steel guide rod. When it was my turn to inspect my G34, they questioned me on this issue. I pulled out a copy of the new rules and they went to the director. Ruling was that it is legal in SSP according to new rulebook. The rule states, "8.2.1.3.4. Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel." As long as the guide rod "no heavier" it's OK. But if I'm wrong please let me know. Thanks and hope to learn more in the forum. Ian FYI- I placed 5th in SSP-MM If you look a little further down in the rules under prohibited modifications for SSP, there are 2 listings that I would think make the bushing a no go for SSP and bump you to ESP where they are specifically allowed. 8.2.1.4.1. Externally visible modifications other than those listed in the Permitted Modifications section. ... 8.2.1.4.5. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design. Personally I think that the bushing could be viewed as a part of the recoil spring assembly and not a modification of the slide. On the other hand it does fit into the slide so that a different recoil spring assembly can be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzghan Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I wondered if the full length steel guide rods made by ZEV would be SSP legal. That is what I run in my production gun for USPSA. From what I could discern in the rule good they “should be”. I shot the MD State IDPA match this last weekend and went ahead and asked the match director before the match and he said it was good to go. Prior to that I had contacted Robert Ray but he did not get back to me until today. He said the match director made the right call and they are indeed SSP legal. Thought I’d throw that out there in case anybody had the same concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBOT5000 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 As stated above in a few different posts the guide rod assembly is an exception to the visibly external modification. A reducer ring is not part of the guide rode which is why they are two seperate parts. I use the jager stainless gen 4 guide rod assembly which has a cap on the end, which is part of the guide rod assembly and therefore also part of the exception regardless of it's externally visible end cap. The zev tech needs a seperate adapter and is therefore illegal. All zev tech has to do it throw a screw in the end of it and sell it with attached to their reducer ring and voila! it is all one legal part just like the jager. I love IDPA and shoot SSP but they honestly should just make it SSP means it came out of the box period. If you don't like it shoot ESP and do whatever you want as long as you can conceal the pistol. It would make life easier one class for the "we shoot what we carry" crowd and another class for "we shoot what we want" regardless of wether YOU think it is defensive or not. You'd never have another wait for a rules clarification from Ray or whoever again. Future rule clarifications would go like this "Hey Ray from IDPA I got a new brownells hyperblaster trigger and firing pin intergrated unit is it SSP legal?", Ray would then "Sorry Cletus (or other IDPA shooter similar name) glocks don't come with hyperblaster and firing pin intergrated units stock so you will have to shoot ESP. Thanks for contacting IDPA and have a great day". JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I agree, JF, there is too much tinkering allowed in STOCK Service Pistol, and not enough ENHANCEMENT or CUSTOMIZATION permitted in those divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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