kimel Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Eric, you shooting your poofter loads or something that will actually create enough gas to make the comp work? During load development I found that the hotter loads often shot better out of the comp in terms of muzzle jump than softer loads. I know when you shot my JP BC you commented that my loads were stout...which makes me wonder if you just aren't pushing enough gas to make the comp work. Go buy a box of Black Hills 69 gr at Sportsmen's Warehouse and see how those run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Kimel, I'll give that a whirl. IIRC, I'm running either close to or over Hodgdon's book max on these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 (edited) Other possibilities: Exposed base lead bullet? I know you aren't shooting cast lead bullets...or at least I hope you aren't. I haven't loaded that powder but it might just be a characteristic of the powder and the comp disperses it instead of shoving it all down range making it more visible. With Varget (using George's pet load for 69gr SMK) I don't notice any haze issues even on cold, damp days over irons or through optics. Other than metering which can be a bitch, I really like Varget. Edited November 21, 2004 by kimel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Exposed base lead bullet? Yes, as a matter of fact I'm using 55 gr FMJs. I never even thought of that. I'll try some HP's ASAP. Thanks Kevin! E (for whom turkey day break cannot arrive fast enough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Easy way to check...is there lead build-up in your comp or just powder residue? If lead then you have your answer. Come down to steel next Sunday and you can try some of my reloads and see if they give you the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 No lead build-up - but 60 rounds won't show much of any kind of build up. The first thing I checked was for copper fragments to see if bullets were hitting the comp. It never even occurred to me that the smoke might simply be lead vapor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Other than metering which can be a bitch, I really like Varget Tip to fix that. On the upstroke, go right to the end of the stroke with enough authority to put a little mechanical slap on the powder measure, then count, one Mississippi, two and reverse the stroke smoothly and steadily. This works because it shakes any powder bridges in the dump tube at just the right time which gives them a chance to slither down into the case while you pause and let the measure quiver. You can slam it only, or pause it only, either can work. I do both! It may add two seconds and change to the time per round, but it gets it all back again when you roll on without all the frequent hazmat cleanup drills Exposed base lead bullet? HMMMMM! I noted in another post that WW748 under the Hornady bulk 55gr FMJBT (exposed lead base) shoots very dirty in my CTR-02 and leaves a greezy film of sooty swarf all over my JP tank brake. I also noted that Alex criticized your comp for having very little baffle space, in effect a tighter exit gate for the gases. I am starting to wonder if this is a case of the tighter gas escape acting a little like the pinhole on a tea pot and concentrating the combustion vapors into a visible cloud. This could happen via acceleration and turbulence imparted by the mini venturi effect that comp probably provides, versus the more unobstructed exit space on other comp designs. In other words, that comp probably sucks hind teat and belongs out back with the beer cans :-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Eric, Why don't you get a couple of boxes of the $7.50 a box Winchester white box 55 grn stuff and see if it causes the same problem with smoke? Most of us in here shoot that stuff with no problems. Come to think of it, we haven't seen any issues out of any of the ammunition we've run through my AR. Trust me when I say it's been some lulu's. I tend to agree with the others that the exposed lead bullets possibly going relatively slow, might be causing your problems with comps. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Since I've heard the word "Varget" about three different places now, I've taken the hint and loaded up 100 rounds with Varget and will see if the extra gas will drive the comp any better. I'm loading up some 69HPBT's to remove the exposed lead from the equation as well. Thanks for all the tips. I haven't given up the fight yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 OK, time for a whiner update: Shot a bunch of Varget with 55 gr. FMJ and 69 gr. Sierras. There was a bit less smoke - at least I could *see* the target after pulling the trigger. The comp worked a lot more and there was little to no muzzle rise. I still don't care for all the extra vibration that I seem to be getting, but things are getting better, sort of. The good thing about the Varget is I *seem* to be getting a lot more velocity out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 The comp worked a lot more and there was little to no muzzle rise. I still don't care for all the extra vibration that I seem to be getting, but things are getting better, sort of. Glad to hear that you are seeing some of the benefits now. The fact that you are noticing vibration compared to when it was un-comped still says to me that something is wrong with that brake design. A good brake with a hot loading should stop the gun on a dime and give you 9 cents change ;-) Hmmmm! It sounds to me like you need to try some other comped AR’s side by side with yours to verify that it is the brake design giving you this trouble and not something peculiar with your overall setup. I’m still sided with Alex about that comp design looking a little strange and that you should probably get a different one. In fact, how about trying one of the new Wakal design brakes. They look a lot like one that I have on an older AR but with a second chamber. That one is very effective, Alex’s should be even more so. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cottyw Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Eric, Do you still prefer no comp? I can’t stand the muzzle blast. I prefer a strait target crown. I tried several for a number of years and just prefer all the blast headed away from me. Anyone else out there, dislike brakes? I feel like I am shooting a 90mm recoilless rifle with a brake on. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Do you still prefer no comp? I can’t stand the muzzle blast. I prefer a strait target crown. I tried several for a number of years and just prefer all the blast headed away from me. Anyone else out there, dislike brakes? I feel like I am shooting a 90mm recoilless rifle with a brake on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If the blast is all that bothers you, try a Levang-style linear compensator... expels the gas forward (I don't think it works as well as a "standard" comp, but it's better than an uncomped rifle, IMO). If you're dealing with a shorter barreled rifle, consider the Noveske Krinkov flash suppressor to direct the blast away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I tried the levang, took it off and gave it away, other than adding a couple of ounces to the muzzle, it did nothing but seperate me from 40 bucks I should have used on ammo. I know this is going to sound strange, but if you hate the muzzle blast, try the jp tank brake. the one that looks like to belongs on a 90mm tank gun. the blast goes out more to the side and up than back towards you. I don't notice the muzzle blast, but everyone around me hate me when I shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 Eric, Do you still prefer no comp? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know yet. My comp is made of soft steel, so joy of joys, it's different every time I shoot the rifle, which is part of the problem. If I ever come back from the clays range to 3 gun, I may try a comp that was actually heat-treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 +1 on the JP tank brake for minimal blast at the shooters position. It really does annoy folks outside of the safe zone the shooter is in ;-) The JP tactical brake does not create this safe zone like the Tank type does. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 +1 on the JP tank brake for minimal blast at the shooters position. It really does annoy folks outside of the safe zone the shooter is in ;-)The JP tactical brake does not create this safe zone like the Tank type does. -- Regards, <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wonder if adding a giant flat washer behind a tactical brake would solve the problem (except that it then wouldn't be Tactical). It should be fairly easy to try with a screw-on comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cottyw Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Is it really worth all the effort for a few 100ths of a second between splits? Isn’t the real time to be saved in transitions between targets? I wonder how many people develop some sort of flinch due excessive muzzle blast from comps. Does anyone have any definitive work done on the subject of muzzle break effectiveness? Are the long term effects worth the short term payoff? Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 In my 3 year study, soon to remain unpublished, I've determined that comps rock. They must vent to the side, though. The F2 seemed like it worked better than the BC, but the BC looks cooler (more like a death ray). Double plug and flinching isn't a problem for me. How many top guns are shooting uncomped rifles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Be careful putting anything flat too close behind the brake. The gases bouncing off the brake are moving rearwards, redirect them forward again with some level of efficiency and you increase recoil. A sloped surface behind the brake that directed the rearward moving blast wave from the brake baffle just a tad further to the sides may work well compared to a flat surface right behind the brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 How many top guns are shooting uncomped rifles None! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 a properly designed comp rocks. a poorly designed comp sucks. with the ar's, there is so much gas pressure, a bad comp design can cause the sights to move more, and creat havoc with your second shot, a great comp will make the rifle feel more neutral, kind of like dry firing with alot of noise. with the jp tank brake, and off a bipod, I'm able to rock a 14" steel gong at 200 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger. btw, if your RO'ing a shooter with a tank brake, the safest place to be is directly behind him, and if he goes kneeling or prone, drop to kneeling also, don't stand above him, it's not pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M118LR Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I have tried many different comps on my AR's. I have some that work great and a few that I had to take off, because they made no differents. Now the one that Eric had a picture of I got on a barrel that I bought and I took it off after I shot about 20 rounds though it. Did not work real well. The two comps that I like the best are Benny Hill's Rolling Thunder and the Badger Ordnance comp. The Badger Ordnance was the one I used at the Cavalry Arms 3-gun match. Eric, you might want to try a different comp. I am sure you find one that will work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I think my comp works great. I shot two "almost identicle" rifles w/ 20" barrels. Mine with Benny Comp and the other with a standard bird cage. Hosing at 20-30 yds was like night and day. Huge difference. I never noticed anything hindering my target view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Benny Comp <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Cooley or Hill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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