dmd6x Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I was at a fairly large 3gun match earlier this year. It was my first ever non-local, "national" match. About 2 magazines into an all pistol stage with about 30-40 targets, I had a malfunction with my 1911. I seated a new magazine, a round came almost 1cm out of the mag, but did not chamber. The slide could move back and forth just a little bit behind the round, but the round wouldn't chamber, and the magazine would not release from the gun. I tried for 2-3 minutes during the stage to fix the malfunction, but ended up having to take failure to engage penalities for the rest of the 25 targets or so. I holstered the weapon, and later we used a screw driver to push the partially dislodged round back into the magazine, and then was able to remove the magazine and clear the firearm. Under normal circumstances, I fully understand that in all 3gun competition, if you're equipment breaks or malfunctions, that's on you. BUT.... The day before, another shooter in my squad, on an all shotgun stage, fired off a a couple of shots, and realized he had a stuck follower on his shotgun tube. The RO at that stage gave him a re-shoot. Therefore, this being my first real 3gun match and not fully knowing the rules, I assumed that since the other shooter the day before had been offered a reshoot for personal equipment malfunction, the same courtesy would be extended to me as well? The RO on my pistol stage denied my reshoot, which seemed appropriate given that he wasn't at the shotgun stage the day before, and ordinarily the rules would say I don't deserve a reshoot. However, upon appealing to the match director, despite him being aware of the reshoot given to my fellow squad member the day before, I was denied a reshoot nonetheless. So, the match is over, and none of it really matters now, but I'm just curious from a theoretical standpoint... Do you agree with the match director, or did I get screwed?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 You got what you deserved. The other shooter got a break he did not deserve. That RO gave every other competitor in the match a defacto penalty by being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I agree w/ Mark. Some outlaw mg rules specifically state that re-shoots shall be granted only by the range master to prevent this type of incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy kemlo Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 RO messed up by giving the shotgun shooter a re-shoot. A re-shoot shouldn't have even crossed his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 As an RO, I try to only give reshoots if I personally yelled "stop" for something I felt was going to be a safety problem...like maybe the muzzle brake unscrewing and possibly leading to pieces of copper and lead coming back on us. If something about the shotgun follower (not sure how) made it unsafe in my opinion, and I stopped the shooter where he could have single loaded the chamber for each shot.....I stopped him earlier than he would have, therefore I personally set his time and caused his FTE's to be what they were. If the shooter points it out and wants to stop....the clocks running, if you're done, empty and show me a clear weapon. ......and I could be completely wrong in giving a reshoot when I stopped the shooter. I haven't been in this game long and haven't been required to RO a ton yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I think we're mis-stepping the major problem here.... What in the world is an all pistol stage doing at a 3 gun match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kampr Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) I holstered the weapon, and later we used a screw driver to push the partially dislodged round back into the magazine, and then was able to remove the magazine and clear the firearm.Like the others have said,.... but I see a bigger problem.How later? You were allowed to leave the stage like that?? Edited July 12, 2013 by kampr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmd6x Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yes I left the stage like that. Holstered pistol, slide locked back, jammed mag and ammo stuck everywhere. Someone went and got a screw driver, and a few minutes later we re-seated the round into the mag. I then went to a berm with another shooter, unholstered in a safe direction, removed the mag, showed clear, dropped the slide, dropped the hammer, and reholstered. When the gun jammed, it was essentially a paper weight...totally locked up. We knew it would take tools to fix. Not sure if we had any other options really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmd6x Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 To be fair, the stage actually had 2 pick-up guns, and THEN it was all pistol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Wow, all wrong on a lot of levels! If you are at a NASCAR race and your engine blows up..you are done! Fix it on the clock or trailer it!!!. Shotgun guy should NEVER got a reshoot. Period!!!. Problem is we don't have a professional R.O. crew at 3-gun, and seldom stage specific R.O.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Ditto what my compadre said above, I don't care what the RO said or didn't say, or what they think is fair. The RM should be the only one to allow a reshoot,.......period. BTW this is how we will handle ProAm next month. I have personally seen a lot of strange reasons given by RO's for reshoots, but until we can have a complete squad of professionally trained RO's we will have to make do with the volunteers we currently get. Not that its a bad thing, Many of them graciously take time away from personal life to sit in the sun, be abused by shooters and match staff, for no pay and very little acknowledgment, some have more experience at shooting than some competitors ever will, and yet they want to give something back to the sport. Others are new with little experience and can be overwhelmed by some of the personalities that are out there shooting, and they will make mistakes. Before you point fingers or cast blame, think of the vast number of shooters that don't RO,.... its because its hard work or they don't want the aggravation. I've made mistakes, I've dealt with RO's that made mistakes as a MD, as a RM, I've disagreed with calls made by some RM and MD, in the end,.........this isn't my profession, I do this for fun. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 You were treated properly. The other guy got a break. It happens in matches no matter how big or small. Our RO's are all volunteers and there is no sanctioning body that says they must take such and such Tange Officer class to qualify as an RO. So you will see all kinds of different range commands and rule interpretations. If you think you're RO made the wrong call no matter how small tell him or her you dont understand why they made the call and ask them to call the Range Master or Match Director or show you the rule you don't understand. You paid big bucks to shoot the match they owe you a fair match at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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