FTE ?

[Bosshoss]

Shooting a local match this last weekend we were shooting the classifier 03-18 high standards. It is three targets 2 strings both strings are freestyle with a mandatory reload and then strong hand first string and weak hand second string after the reload. I was running the score sheet when a shooter was shooting second string and after the reload while shooting second string gun broke after second target and he couldn't finish leaving last target not shot. Two of his targets had 8 hits(as required) but last target had 6 as the gun broke before he engaged it.

When scoring is that a FTE as he did shoot the target in the first part of the string as per stage description(freestyle) but couldn't reengage after reload and gun broke?

On a similer note if the gun had broke on the first part of string(before the reload) and shooter didn't shoot the last target would the be 2 FTE's on T3 or 1 FTE(2 FTE's on 1 target?)

[ima45dv8]

Not an FTE/FTSA. He had holes in the target(s). That's the clearest evidence they were engaged.

Score the appropriate misses and call the next shooter to the line.

[Saffer]

Rule 9.5.7 "A competitor who fails to shoot at the face of each scoring target in a course of fire with at least one round will incur one procedural penalty per target for failure to shoot at the target, as well as appropriate penalties for misses."

IMO, no FTE. He had already engaged that target during the COF. It doesn't get treated as a new target. It's just the sequence in which he engaged the targets, that was specified.

[bagdad45]

I think in this case there are procedural penalties but not for FTE. I think 10.2.2 would apply, failure to comply with the procedure specified. In this instance, I as the RO would assess a single procedural for failing to comply with the WSB even though the WSB says two rounds weak hand. The shooter is already getting tagged for the two misses plus a procedural; they are down at least 30 points on a 120 point stage. I would argue they didn't get a significant advantage by not engaging the last target.

[sperman]

You either earn a FTE or you don't. There is no judgement call on significant advantage. In this case, no FTE.

Created: 6/29/10
Updated: 7/06/10
Effective: 7/06/10
Rule Number: 10.2.2
Applies to: General
Ruling Authority: DNROI
Status: Released
Question:
We were shooting classifier CM08-01 Virginia Count. The procedure is: String1: On signal, engage one target with only six rounds freestyle, make mandatory reload, etc. The shooter engages first target with five (5) rounds, makes mandatory reload and completes the COF. RO gives the shooter one miss penalty (well deserved) plus a procedural penalty for shooting less than six rounds required sighting the per rule 10.2.2.
Answer:
It is scored as a miss with no procedural for failing to fire the 6 rounds, the competitor is already being penalized for the infraction. 10.2.2 stipulates a procedural per shot for failing to comply with a stage procedure, this would mean for example, carrying a briefcase while engaging targets, the competitor leaves it behind and shoots without it.

[bagdad45]

Thats why I like this forum more than any others, so much of what you know as an RO is what you have experienced. That is a good explanation of how to use the rule 10.2.2. I agree with target being engaged so no penalty but thought there might still be a penalty. Not to be a gamer but I wonder if you were fast enough to get equal hit factor with out taking the shots. I am not that good working hit factor in my head but might pull a spreadsheet to check out. I would automaticaly say there must not be or people would be doing it.

[Saffer]

Each miss (or Mike) is approximately the equivalent of 3 second (depending on where your skill set falls). So to take two Mikes, you would need to be about 6 seconds faster on your time. On a long COF, with two difficult shots, it may be worth the risk. But that's up to you to decide. In my experience, it is rarely worth not taking the shot.

[bagdad45]

Each miss (or Mike) is approximately the equivalent of 3 second (depending on where your skill set falls). So to take two Mikes, you would need to be about 6 seconds faster on your time. On a long COF, with two difficult shots, it may be worth the risk. But that's up to you to decide. In my experience, it is rarely worth not taking the shot.

Even at my lowly level of shooting I could get 2 shots off in 6 seconds weak hand.

[Nik Habicht]

I think in this case there are procedural penalties but not for FTE. I think 10.2.2 would apply, failure to comply with the procedure specified. In this instance, I as the RO would assess a single procedural for failing to comply with the WSB even though the WSB says two rounds weak hand. The shooter is already getting tagged for the two misses plus a procedural; they are down at least 30 points on a 120 point stage. I would argue they didn't get a significant advantage by not engaging the last target.

Just for the record -- you can't apply 10.2.2 for a gun breaking. There's no requirement that a shooter fire every round -- we have miss and FTE penalties to deal with that eventuality....

[Poppa Bear]

No FTE and no procedurals, he is already taking a big hit for the gun breaking before the last target. The stage is worth 120 points. We will say he shot all alphas, so 22 shots equals 110 points. The two mikes equal a reduction of 10 points each so he is now down to 90 points. Each mike is worth a 15 point reduction because of the -5 for the non alpha hit, and the -10 penalty for the miss. Losing 1/4 of your points to 2 mikes will hurt your HF big time.

[High Lord Gomer]

http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=45

Question:

We were shooting classifier CM08-01 Virginia Count. The procedure is: String1: On signal, engage one target with only six rounds freestyle, make mandatory reload, etc. The shooter engages first target with five (5) rounds, makes mandatory reload and completes the COF. RO gives the shooter one miss penalty (well deserved) plus a procedural penalty for shooting less than six rounds required sighting the per rule 10.2.2.

Answer:

It is scored as a miss with no procedural for failing to fire the 6 rounds, the competitor is already being penalized for the infraction. 10.2.2 stipulates a procedural per shot for failing to comply with a stage procedure, this would mean for example, carrying a briefcase while engaging targets, the competitor leaves it behind and shoots without it.

[sperman]

I guess you didn't see post #5

[High Lord Gomer]

LOL...Nope. I saw all that blue and it blended in with signature text.

[sperman]

Making the whole quote a hyperlink was probably a mistake. Like you said, blue and underlined makes it hard to read.