RifleShooter Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 After about 4 years, I have finally 'finished' my rifle! Of course, 'finished' implies that nothing will change, so in that sense it will never be finished, but I digress. 18" Rock Creek SPR barrel with a Troy VTAC 15" tube. This is not really set up for 3 gun--if I get to play 3 gun games, I will take the scope off and put on a Bushnell Holosight. This is set up more as a precision rifle, the scope is a Bushnell Legend HD Ultra 4.5-14x in an Armalite mount. So why am I posting in a 3 gun forum? Simple, I would like some sort of offset red dot/reflex sight to use for short range while the scope is mounted. I might at some point get a lower power optic to use for 3 gun, if I play enough to make it worthwhile, and I would still like to have the offset dot. I have seen that there are a lot of things out there, but at this point I have not actually used any of them, or even seen them in person. I would love to use a Holosight, but they are HUGE, and it does not make sense to use something that large as what is basically a backup sight, does it? They are also expensive--of course I own a Bushnell, but it is pretty darn long, much longer than the offset rails I have seen. I would prefer to keep this under about $300 if I can manage it. More is possible, but it will take longer to scrounge the money. As it is I have sold a lot of things I did not really want to let go to get the rifle to this point. I see a lot of offset mounts, and some of them appear much higher than others. The biggest reason I chose the Armalite mount was to keep the scope lower. This mount has the center about 1.25" from the rail, where other mounts are 1.44-1.5". I'm not sure how that will translate, if at all, to the offset mount, since I have to rotate the rifle to use the dot. I'm guessing that lower will be better, as it would require less movement to pick up the dot? Anyway, I am looking for suggestions for a dot/mount combo. From the dots I have seen, I generally prefer a small dot--the Holosight has a 1MOA dot inside the circle, and I have seen some 2MOA dots. I have not seen one, but I saw a JPoint for sale with an 8MOA dot, and that sounds freakin huge! Of course, this is for short range, so picking up the dot is more important than precision, but how big is too big? Once I break it in, this may become my home defense weapon, in which case the dot would be my primary sight. What are the important factors to consider for such a sight? What criteria do you use to decide on one versus another? Can you tell yet why it took four years for me to get the rifle built? Thanks, looking forward to an interesting discussion, Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangeman711 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Go with a JPoint or Doctor on a Burkett Mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmcc Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Go with a JPoint or Doctor on a Burkett Mount. +1. Set it all the way to the back of the rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If you are thinking of getting another scope and mount for 3 gun, maybe go ahead and buy one vs getting an offset dot. Would be just as much $$$ for the offset setup. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The Daniel defense 1 O'clock mount works excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootertheshooter Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The Daniel defense 1 O'clock mount works excellent. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 The Daniel defense 1 O'clock mount works excellent. On the Daniel Defense site, they show it attached to a side rail, not the top rail. Would it not put the dot in a rather strange place if you mounted it on the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I run mine in the top rail horizontally. Works very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMBOpen Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Firebird Precision CQSS does a 60 degree offset, so scope doesn't block the view. Choice of right or left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 The Burkett mount looks just about perfect! Seems to address all the needs for a mount of that type, while keeping the price reasonable for what it is. I think I am sold! So that leaves one minor issue--which dot? There are two versions of the mount, one that supports C-More STS and Trijicon RMR, and one that supports Burris FastFire II and III, J-Point, Trijicon RedDot, Tasco Optima, Firepoint, Docter, and Fowler/Pride. Only one on my list not covered is the Bushnell, at this point I am not sure if it is compatible with one of the other types or not. So, sticking with the list, we are down to the following: C-More STS $399 Trijicon RMR $481 Burris FastFire II $199 Burris FastFire III $229 JPoint $299 Tasco Optima $150 Firepoint $??? Docter $400 Pride/Fowler $400 Leupold DeltaPoint $700 The Leupold shares a mounting base with some of the others, and so would work. In order to eliminate some of these, I will first cut everything $400 and up, and the one for which I have no price. For my purposes none of them will work. So I now have left: Burris FastFire II $199 Burris FastFire III $229 JPoint $299 Tasco Optima $150 The Tasco is only found on eBay, as it is out of production. I tend to favor things with a warranty, so lose that. Burris FastFire II $199 Burris FastFire III $229 JPoint $299 The Burris units can be powered off with a switch, or put to sleep with a cover. Covers can be lost, but the power button is good in that scenario, Burris claims the batteries will last 5 years using the covers. The JPoint appears to have no switch, relying on the cover to shift it to sleep mode. This could be bad if you lose the cover. The Burris units come with a 4 MOA dot(FFII), or a 3 or 8MOA dot(FFIII), while the JPoint has either a 4 or 8MOA dot. The Burris unit are metal, with real glass lenses, while the JPoint is plastic, with acrylic lens. The FFII and the JPoint do not appear to have any manual brightness settings, while the FFIII has 3 manual settings plus auto. So what makes the big difference? Which would you choose, and for what reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 FF3...for the simple reason you can change batteries WITHOUT having to re-zero. Having done that in a hotel room during a match is unsettling, not knowing where yer bullets are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmcc Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 My FFII is way brighter than my JPoint so I'm assuming the FFIII is as bright as the II or brighter so I'd go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 The battery being accessible is big. I like the 3MOA dot option, and having manual as well as auto modes. So the winner is the FF III, which I ordered this afternoon, to reside in a Burkett mount I ordered this morning. I will try to follow up when everything arrives. Thanks for the input! Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Thanks to the suggestions on here, I got the FF3 in the Burkett mount, and I finally got to the range today. I had a problem with the scope mount, so I have not gotten to really work on groups yet, but I sighted the dot at 25 yards. I managed a sub 1" 5-shot group using the dot, which for a 3MOA dot shooting off one leg of a bipod I thought was pretty darn good. I am VERY happy with the dot setup, thanks guys! The gun has adjustable gas, and it is throwing the brass about a foot, so when I shoot with the gun rolled over to the dot, it goes about 6 inches up and comes back down almost on the gun. I may have to open it up just a wee bit more, but I will probably try it out more first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjw Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 After about 4 years, I have finally 'finished' my rifle! Of course, 'finished' implies that nothing will change, so in that sense it will never be finished, but I digress. 18" Rock Creek SPR barrel with a Troy VTAC 15" tube. This is not really set up for 3 gun--if I get to play 3 gun games, I will take the scope off and put on a Bushnell Holosight. This is set up more as a precision rifle, the scope is a Bushnell Legend HD Ultra 4.5-14x in an Armalite mount. So why am I posting in a 3 gun forum? Simple, I would like some sort of offset red dot/reflex sight to use for short range while the scope is mounted. I might at some point get a lower power optic to use for 3 gun, if I play enough to make it worthwhile, and I would still like to have the offset dot. I have seen that there are a lot of things out there, but at this point I have not actually used any of them, or even seen them in person. I would love to use a Holosight, but they are HUGE, and it does not make sense to use something that large as what is basically a backup sight, does it? They are also expensive--of course I own a Bushnell, but it is pretty darn long, much longer than the offset rails I have seen. I would prefer to keep this under about $300 if I can manage it. More is possible, but it will take longer to scrounge the money. As it is I have sold a lot of things I did not really want to let go to get the rifle to this point. I see a lot of offset mounts, and some of them appear much higher than others. The biggest reason I chose the Armalite mount was to keep the scope lower. This mount has the center about 1.25" from the rail, where other mounts are 1.44-1.5". I'm not sure how that will translate, if at all, to the offset mount, since I have to rotate the rifle to use the dot. I'm guessing that lower will be better, as it would require less movement to pick up the dot? Anyway, I am looking for suggestions for a dot/mount combo. From the dots I have seen, I generally prefer a small dot--the Holosight has a 1MOA dot inside the circle, and I have seen some 2MOA dots. I have not seen one, but I saw a JPoint for sale with an 8MOA dot, and that sounds freakin huge! Of course, this is for short range, so picking up the dot is more important than precision, but how big is too big? Once I break it in, this may become my home defense weapon, in which case the dot would be my primary sight. What are the important factors to consider for such a sight? What criteria do you use to decide on one versus another? Can you tell yet why it took four years for me to get the rifle built? Thanks, looking forward to an interesting discussion, Arnie short dot try this: decide what distance u will consistantly shoot. u can hit any target i have ever seen out to 300 yds with the eotec/type site. i like them and shoot them in 3 gun a lot. i shot it at rock castle 1st year and shot fine. i usea 11.5" bbl in work(so not relevent ) with an aimpoint. i al;so have a spare upper with a s&b short dot 2fp,with aim point h-1 IN 4 MOA ONLY). if i ineed to shoot long range,seldom. (we are an overseas security company on contract to govt. if u decide to go the way u are thinking put a GOOD 2-4 moa red dot up over the forend at th REAR of the fornend at the delta ring area. get a larue ofset mount. mount the lock on the top rail and the h-1 should be just at 1:00. u are gtg. i am an aimpoiny dealer and i sell a lot of h-1's to shooters but they always come back for ther 4 moa AFTER buying the 2 moa. even tho i tried to talk them out of the 2 moa for this dcomcept i sell a lot of big time match shooters who are friends. h-1 is for 100 yds and in. this works for a lot of my guys and we all use a variety of gear inside reasonable parameters. also i have bi focals and an astigmatism. ask i am around jjw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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