Squads and Timing

[Paul B]

I've read about the 4-5 stage a day Nationals schedule and I've seen the squad sizes which ranged from 12-14. I've shot a lot of major matches on this type of format. Past Nationals, the Florida Open and some area matches have had the "big squad slow schedule" approach.

I realize that this may appeal to some, but the waiting to shoot and the long breaks in between stages drive me batty and truly effect my performance. Additionally, while I consider shooting to be a social activity and love the interplay with other shooters, even I can run out of things to talk about with 2 hours in between stages.

This "big squad slow schedule", overtly is a way to handle large groups, like at the Nationals, where the goal is to keep everyone around till the end of the match for a prize table. (I won't espouse any conspiracy theories about the vendors.) I've always been content, however, to shoot the large matches without picking up any prizes in exchange for getting home after several days on the road. Of course, I've never won one of the bigger prizes, but I suspect if I had I would have tried to have it sent anyway.

The first time we shot the Florida open it was 10 stages over 2 days with big squads and the waiting was interminable. The next time we shot it all in one day and it was fun. Is this a personal preference thing?

What I like to see are squad sizes that max out at 8-9 and a 10 stage a day schedule that lets you do an area match in a 1 day format and a nationals in no more than 3 days. For a Nationals this would mean a different form of scheduling and I'm sure it would mean that some shooters would already be home for 3 days before the prize table, but that might be what they want.

This would mean that a lot of shooters could get the match in during a long weekend rather than burn a full week of vacation. It would also allow juniors to shoot even in the fall.

I know this "small squad fast schedule" format is used for a lot of area matches. I just don't know if it could be used at a nationals if the need for everyone to be there at the end were removed.

[Skywalker]

Paul,

FYI here in Italy we run 10stages-10squads-14 people per squad matches starting at 8:00 and ending between 16:00 and 17:00, depending on weather conditions, all the year.

Our standard national league match is 10 stages, 180 rounds, 140 competitors per day, 2days (shoot on saturday or sunday, at your choice), for a total of 280 competitors over the two days.

Ask Arnie or Denise, who witnessed it.

[Rob Boudrie]

The 2004 Area 7 match had squad sizes of about 7 (8 on Sunday), and everyone got in allowing everyone to complete an 8 stage/7 pit match in one half day. We found that this size gave everyone enough time to get ready, but not enough time for competitors to get tired of waiting. I'll be encouraging the match director fcor the 2005 Area 7 Championship to use a similar approach.

[Jim Norman]

The probelm is that if you schedule the match over 5 days with the shooters shooting say M-W Noon and W Noon through Friday and then send the prizes, you A) don't have a Shoot off because the winners might not be there and if the weather is Hot M-W and rains W-F the shooters on one end can get really screwed.

You need to have everyone there for the whole match at a Nationals. At an Area Match, I think it is OK to shoot 8 stages, small squad and 1/2 day. A the Nats, you want to go, you stay the whole time.

My opinon, but it is the right one

Jim

[Sestock]

Paul,

The longest wait we had was about 30 minutes due to range issues. The half day format worked well for the number of shooters(536) at the match.

[BigDave]

The Indiana State USPSA match has run in half-day formats (8-12 and 1-5) with squads of 6-10 and 7-8 stages. Read: you shoot 7-8 stages in 3-4 hours.

It seems to have worked well this year and last.

[Rob Boudrie]

Paul,

The longest wait we had was about 30 minutes due to range issues. The half day format worked well for the number of shooters(536) at the match.

Was that the longest wait from the time you showed up on a stage to the time you shot, or the longest wait until the time your squad could use a range it arrived at?

[BDH]

Was that the longest wait from the time you showed up on a stage to the time you shot, or the longest wait until the time your squad could use a range it arrived at?

I can probably only speak for my stage (11 - Attic Window), but I think I only had two squads wait for the stage. Normally, we were waiting on the squads to get there, and once they did, we were clearing them in about 35 - 40 minutes, so we were always way ahead. It was not a huge stage, but did have steel, three movers that we had to set, walls and a small house that we had to make sure were clear.

Most of the squads were very good about helping paste and reset the stage, but the bottom line is that, we were cruisin'.....

[Sherwyn]

This was the first time I shot the Nationals. My preference would be a shorter format, but I saw no problems with the squad size as it seemed everyone was always ahead of schedule.

With the schedule that was used, it would be possible to have 1/4 of the shooters use a 2 1/2 day schedule the first half of the match and another 1/4 shoot the second 2 1/2 days of the same slots. Then the remaining half could shoot the full week on half day schedules.

It was a great match, but it is really hard for me to burn a whole week of vacation to attend.

Thanks to all the RO's, match staff, etc.

Sherwyn

[Rob Boudrie]

With the schedule that was used, it would be possible to have 1/4 of the shooters use a 2 1/2 day schedule the first half of the match and another 1/4 shoot the second 2 1/2 days of the same slots. Then the remaining half could shoot the full week on half day schedules.

I was just talking about this idea at a recent match - it would seem to give more people their preference, and get more of the people who can't afford to take an entire week off

out to the Nationals.

Possible problems:

1. Super Squad Unity - Would all the super squad people agree to shoot the full week? Does it really matter?

2. Weather - We are crowning a National Champion. Under an "everyone shoots all days" format, there is a less of a "weather luck score differential" than with different days of shooting for various competitors. This meand we could easily have reasonable speculation that someone list the title only becuase they were unlucky enough to get a day with bad weather.

3. Gamesmanship with people trying to "swithc dates" at the last minute based on the weather forcast. This could be easily managed.

4. Not everyone would be present at the final awards. This would reduce the "bigness" of the event, and create a significant logistical challange with the distribution of the prizes. This would also mean the second set days would be far more desirable than the first.

5. Shooters entering on the second half start all stages with a good idea what the hit factors on each stage will look like. Under the current system, eveyone starts the first few stages without any such data.

But the good points:

1. More people could shoot the match

2. Additional incentive to register early

3. More members get what they want.

I'll see what our president has to say about this.

[Sestock]

Rob,

We had to wait on the squad ahead of us, on a regular basis during the match. Usually it was 10-15 minutes, but it was 30+ minutes on several stages.

We were shooting behind a squad made up of mostly foriegn shooter(south americans), they did not paste or set steel unless an RO strongly reminded them to. They didn't seem too motivated to get through the stages quickly, or care that they were backing up the match. One guy would sit in the golf cart until it was time to shoot the stage, then go back to the cart until they moved on. I assume that John or Troy spoke with them, I know most of the RO's were complaining about them.

We did seem to get through stages quickly. Our squad worked extremely well together in pasting and setting steel, usually if you took pasters out, you only had to paste one or two targets.

[BDH]

Our squad worked extremely well together in pasting and setting steel, usually if you took pasters out, you only had to paste one or two targets.

I will reiterate my earlier comments that the squads really worked hard to help us keep the match moving (with the exception of one or two squads already highlighted). That was one of the benefits of the big squads, as there were always plenty of people to help us reset the stage without bothering the shooter, on-deck shooter, and maybe even, the in the hole shooter.

Very much appreciated by all the staff!!