TheBoss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have an M&P Pro 40 5" with a lightened slide, Apex trigger and set of Wolff springs. I have dropped the recoil spring from 16# to 15# and finally to 14#. Yet I cannot get my split times cannot get under .18 seconds. I am trying to get my cycle rate to .09 seconds with reliability. Any ideas on what I can try? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) i do not really know if you can get that fast on a M & P, but if only talking cycle rate the heavy spring should be the fastest. we have lighten 9 Pro's as i recall trying for speed only the best split time was a 0.13 or 0.14 with that said we are more joy riders in the action shooting sports and not trying to be the top finisher. too fat and old. Edited December 7, 2012 by RWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm really not trying to be funny. But more practice? I have seen a GM run an M&P faster than I thought possible. He was just firing it into a berm but he was trying to prove a point that with proper technique the M&P or Glocks can run plenty fast. He could shoot that gun way faster than I can run my Open gun FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Another thing to try is bump firing it to see just how fast the gun can cycle then tinker and practice to try to get close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 @Sarge lol. I an running my CZ SP01 Shadow in .09 secs my Glock 34 in .11 secs. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 @RWF I found my answer. Varying the recoil spring weight does not affect cycle rate of the slide. This coincides with the data from the range today. Lightening the slide, lighter bullet weights and varying powder charge affects cycle rate. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 @Sarge lol. I an running my CZ SP01 Shadow in .09 secs my Glock 34 in .11 secs. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Sounds like you got it down but I have seen a stock M&P run to where it sounded like it was damn near full auto. Agree that stronger springs with loads that have some ass behind them should be faster. When I loaded my PRO with 147's and a 11 pound spring it was like watching a gun in slow motion. I went to a 13 but it was still slow with mouse fart loads. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm wondering how do you test this? as in how do you know that it is actually the cycle that is not happening under your goal time?? vs let say the trigger being harder to operatate consitantly at that speed? i'm curious.. it be great to have a way to test a pistol split ability separate from the shooters.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Once a slide reaches it max rearward movement the only thing driving it home is the spring. Much of recoil is actually created by the slide slamming home too hard and fast that the nose dips. Lighter springs drastically reduce that dip because there is just not as much snap in the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 @ Carlosa good point. I tested my Glock using 115GR and the CZ with 147GR my splits were faster .09 and .11 secs. When I jump to 180GR in 40 cal my splits go to .19 secs. I can only assume I am pulling the trigger as fast as the cycle will allow. I expected to see a rise in splits to .13 secs going to a higher bullet weight, but .19 is too slow. On a long course, that is a difference of about 3 seconds. That is an eternity in Limited division. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 @ Carlosa good point. I tested my Glock using 115GR and the CZ with 147GR my splits were faster .09 and .11 secs. When I jump to 180GR in 40 cal my splits go to .19 secs. I can only assume I am pulling the trigger as fast as the cycle will allow. I expected to see a rise in splits to .13 secs going to a higher bullet weight, but .19 is too slow. On a long course, that is a difference of about 3 seconds. That is an eternity in Limited division. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Do you ever out run the slide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I call bullshit. I would love to see video of an entire field course shot with the majority of the splits being in the .09-.11 range with a Glock or CZ. Also, I guarantee you that the slide of your M&P Pro is not taking .18 seconds to cycle, and that you have never, ever outrun the firing cycle of it or any other handgun you own that wasn't in truly horrendous condition. Maybe you're just not used to the recoil of major power factor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yeah seems slide speed is only important if your some how out running the gun.. But the speed it takes to shoot something in my opinion has less to do with cycle speed an more with the difficulty of the shot. No? Specially on a long coarse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yeah seems slide speed is only important if your some how out running the gun.. But the speed it takes to shoot something in my opinion has less to do with cycle speed an more with the difficulty of the shot. No? Specially on a long coarse Definitely! I can't think of many top non-Open shooters that really have "amazing" splits. They all seem to be more focused on simply putting the bullets exactly where they want them to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie j Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Having seen you shoot , I might suggest you chase alphas, and better transitions. Then your splits will come along all by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 @RWF I found my answer. Varying the recoil spring weight does not affect cycle rate of the slide. This coincides with the data from the range today. Lightening the slide, lighter bullet weights and varying powder charge affects cycle rate. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD thanks, makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Just got done playing with my 9mm pro production gun. 147gr precision bullets 135pf, 13 lbs recoil spring. I held the gun with my week hand and fanned the trigger with my strong hand. Not practical, I know, but with 1 mag I had no problem getting .09 splits consistantly with a couple.08 splits. There is no way anyone is out running the slide with a .18 split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 @ronniej I agree with you on transitions but my Alpha percentage is running at 78%,Charlie at 15%, Delta at 6%, Bravo/Mike 1% (over all the matches from 2012). Last several matches I have run into gun problems with FTF and FTE and stopped in the middle of 3 stages this past Saturday at CGC after multiple malfunctions. I believe I have solved the FTF and FTE issues this past weekend, with the changes made this evening to the mags and the gun. I fully expect the gun to run flawlessly at RBGC on the 22nd. This post was looking for an understanding on where speed from the cycle rate comes. I naively thought cycle rate was based on the recoil spring. After all the discussion and testing, what I found was the cycle rate does not change with the recoil spring. Cycle rate is a combination of bullet weight, powder load and slide weight. After all this, I am wondering if the APEX trigger is the issue due to the unresponsive feel of its reset. I will start another discussion on the APEX trigger regarding speed. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69bowty Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Here is a video of my M&P shot at 500 frames per second. The pistol is running a 13lb recoil spring. The load is 3.5 grains of titegroup under a 147 MG. I was pulling the trigger as fast as I could, no way I could out run the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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