bkeeler Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Top end went to STI today. Will let everyone know what the problem was when I get it back....... BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Running a standard extractor set up very loose today and had 5 failures today with my reloads running 1.180 OAL. BK I don't think the extractor was the problem. When I've run into this my cure has been to bevel the transition between the feedramp and the chamber and polish it, polish the breechface, and polish the chamber on the top. If the extractor is okay that usually solves the problem. As others have posted, not putting enough crimp on the case mouth can cause these issues too, but if yours was doing it with factory loads that takes that out of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I sent the top end off to STI. Got it back yesterday they tuned the extractor, modified the feed ramp. 3 failures in 200 rounds(my loads at 1.180 oal) last night ugh!!!!!!!!! So i tried some factory ammo failed 3 or 4 times in 50 rounds. Tried atlanta arms long ammo failed 2 or 3 times in 20 rds. Tried factory ammo and Atlanta arms ammo in a different tuned mag failed,changed back to recoil master from a FLG with a 14lb spring that made it worse. I checked the extractor tension with a Weigand extractor tension tool before I started shooting it it was set at 2lbs by STI. I reduced it to 9ozs still failed once with a tuned mag that is 4years old but had new springs in it this year. Tried a friends new tuned mag and ran a mag through it no problem with factory and Atlanta arms ammo. Going to tune the lips on that mag...... Also called STI back today and left a message. Any other thoughts??????? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The Aftec is going to need some tuning to work properly. I don't care what the instructions say. They do not work properly out of the box. The bottom corner needs to be contoured, the edge that should touch the rim needs a feeding relief cut, all contact surfaces should be polished and they usually need to be relieved on the front so they don't hit the barrel. Ramped barrel feeding issues with short (factory length) ammo are well known. Every factory ramped barrel I've seen has the feed ramp cut incorrectly. Most need to be modified to feed all lengths of ammunition reliably. I've only personally fit them in half a dozen guns or so, but none of have needed any tuning to be 100% reliable. I have other guns that came with them when the smith built them, and none have different profiles (other than some shortening to clear the barrel). R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 The Aftec is going to need some tuning to work properly. I don't care what the instructions say. They do not work properly out of the box. The bottom corner needs to be contoured, the edge that should touch the rim needs a feeding relief cut, all contact surfaces should be polished and they usually need to be relieved on the front so they don't hit the barrel. Ramped barrel feeding issues with short (factory length) ammo are well known. Every factory ramped barrel I've seen has the feed ramp cut incorrectly. Most need to be modified to feed all lengths of ammunition reliably. I've only personally fit them in half a dozen guns or so, but none of have needed any tuning to be 100% reliable. I have other guns that came with them when the smith built them, and none have different profiles (other than some shortening to clear the barrel). R, I put one in my other Limited gun and it ran flawless without any tuning other than squeezing the little springs. Wish I had that gun back ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Do you have a different mag. release that you can try? Maybe yours is holding the mag a little too low? Any difference in the jams with a full mag. vs. a partial mag.? EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Do you have a different mag. release that you can try? Maybe yours is holding the mag a little too low? Any difference in the jams with a full mag. vs. a partial mag.? EG I thought of this as well it has the Dawson posi loc mag release in it now. But I wanted to try one thing at a time. (I tuned all the mags but one new tuned Brazos mag) according to the Dawson mag tuning kit. It ran fine with all of those mags. The new tuned Brazos mag had a weird failure never seen this happen before. Any ideas what would cause this type of failure? Thanks! Edited September 21, 2012 by bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Do you have a different mag. release that you can try? Maybe yours is holding the mag a little too low? Any difference in the jams with a full mag. vs. a partial mag.? EG I thought of this as well it has the Dawson posi loc mag release in it now. But I wanted to try one thing at a time. (I tuned all the mags but one new tuned Brazos mag) according to the Dawson mag tuning kit. It ran fine with all of those mags. The new tuned Brazos mag had a weird failure never seen this happen before. Any ideas what would cause this type of failure? Thanks! That is a malf that usually comes from a short stroke of some kind, or a mag spring that is weak or a load too light, or too heavy a recoil spring. Basically the slide is trying to go forward before the round is sitting up fully. I have a hard time thinking it is the new Brazos mag..... Have you inspected the grip closely. Is there a crack or a gap somewhere? The two things could easily be related if the grip is not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Do you have a different mag. release that you can try? Maybe yours is holding the mag a little too low? Any difference in the jams with a full mag. vs. a partial mag.? EG I thought of this as well it has the Dawson posi loc mag release in it now. But I wanted to try one thing at a time. (I tuned all the mags but one new tuned Brazos mag) according to the Dawson mag tuning kit. It ran fine with all of those mags. The new tuned Brazos mag had a weird failure never seen this happen before. Any ideas what would cause this type of failure? Thanks! That is a malf that usually comes from a short stroke of some kind, or a mag spring that is weak or a load too light, or too heavy a recoil spring. Basically the slide is trying to go forward before the round is sitting up fully. I have a hard time thinking it is the new Brazos mag..... Have you inspected the grip closely. Is there a crack or a gap somewhere? The two things could easily be related if the grip is not right. I haven't checked the grip. I am running major loads with a 14lb recoil spring and a 17lb main spring. I will check and make sure the recoil spring is not binding causing the slide to short stroke. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 The feed lip dimensions on this mag are .380 back .390 front. just like the others are. So I think I eliminated the mag unless the follower stuck in it. The gun only did this once with this mag I couldn't get it to do it again. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 I started a new topic here http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=159749 since I am having a different issue than I had before. Thanks for all the help everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Well, if the grip/mag release isn't sitting too low, and during the malf the round is not touching the extractor yet, then you have 3 areas to look at. The breach face, the edge of the barrel throat, and the top of the chamber. That is of course assuming that the ammo is properly crimped etc... More often than not it is the edge of the barrel throat needing broken more. Check the breach face and make sure there are no burrs or any rough or high spots. Look closely at the top of the chamber it may need polished. Thought of one more thing, it is a long shot but...........are you getting any weird marks on the brass? I have seen this 3 point malf caused by the stripper rail digging into the round underneath and robbing the momentum enough to do this exact malf. Basically had to break and smooth out the stripper rail and that fixed the issue. Edited September 21, 2012 by tpcdvc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Well, if the grip/mag release isn't sitting too low, and during the malf the round is not touching the extractor yet, then you have 3 areas to look at. The breach face, the edge of the barrel throat, and the top of the chamber. That is of course assuming that the ammo is properly crimped etc... More often than not it is the edge of the barrel throat needing broken more. Check the breach face and make sure there are no burrs or any rough or high spots. Look closely at the top of the chamber it may need polished. Thought of one more thing, it is a long shot but...........are you getting any weird marks on the brass? I have seen this 3 point malf caused by the stripper rail digging into the round underneath and robbing the momentum enough to do this exact malf. Basically had to break and smooth out the stripper rail and that fixed the issue. Thanks for the help! I think the feed issue where the round was stopping at an angle before it went into the chamber is fixed. I sent the top end off to STI and they modified the feed ramp. I had this recent issue pop up last night with the round basically pointing straight up. I just talked to Huston at Dawson about it I sent them the pics this morning. He believes it was the follower sticking at this point. He wants me to swap this follower with another to see if it follows the follower or stays with the mag tube. He doesn't think that the slide is short stroking. But I will check to make sure that the recoil spring is not binding and maybe causing the slide to short stroke. Edited September 21, 2012 by bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were getting the same issue after getting the top end back from STI, and in addition to that this "new" malf showed up. My bad...... Edited September 21, 2012 by tpcdvc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were getting the same issue after getting the top end back from STI, and in addition to that this "new" malf showed up. My bad...... My bad I made it a little confusing but this whole thing as been a pain! I did get it back from STI and had the same problem. So I called Dawson and they wanted me to run the mag the gun came with so I decided to have a friend of mine that has the Dawson mag tuning kit go through my mags except for the newer Brazos. We tuned all the mags everything went fine except what happened with the newer Brazos mag. Believe it to be follower sticking causing the last issue after talking with Dawson. Thanks for taking the time to help with this issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Latest verdict on my FTF issues with my STI. I had multiple conversations with STI on what to try before I sent the top end to STI per their request don't understand why they didn't want the whole gun. Anyway they modified the feed ramp,tuned extractor. I got the top end back on Tuesday I test fired and had 3 failures out of 200rds. So I called them back on Wednesday they wanted all my mags and extractor. So I called Dawson to see if they can resolve this on going issue since I got this gun new in July. They have been more than helpful and wanted me to try the mag it came with which I did on Thursday, I decided to double check all the mags and made adjustments according to the Dawson Precision mag tuning kit. Test fired 100 rds. with all my mags gun ran with no problems other than a follower stuck in the new Brazos mag I used. Shot a 5 stage match today the gun ran with no problems in 3 of those 5 stages. One stage I had 5-6 jams and went through every mag on my belt which was 3 and one in the gun. The other stage I had 4-5 jams. This all happened with different mags. These mags have run flawless in another STI before tuning them. The only other thing I am going to try is new mag springs which I don't think is going to help since I have had problems with a new tuned Brazos mag as well. I will be calling Dawson back tomorrow to let them know I am still having a problem. This has been aggravating to say the least! I have never had gun issues like this before with any other gun I have had including STI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Seems to me STI set up the extractor to tight after they tuned the extractor had to use a lot of pressure to slide an empty case under the hook.. I am going to loosen the tension on the extractor to see what will happen, hell can't hurt. If that doesn't work I have all new mag springs coming on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 After talking with Dawson I loosened the tension on the extractor and polished it where the case cams under it to remove any burs that may have been present which i didn't see or feel. Going to test it out tonight. If that doesn't work I will install all new mag springs that came today! Daniel and Huston at Dawson have been a tremendous help with this issue I have been having!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Seems to me STI set up the extractor to tight after they tuned the extractor had to use a lot of pressure to slide an empty case under the hook.. I am going to loosen the tension on the extractor to see what will happen, hell can't hurt. If that doesn't work I have all new mag springs coming on Tuesday. That definitely looks like an extractor issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feederic Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 So you ended up tuning your tuned mags? Or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) So you ended up tuning your tuned mags? Or am I missing something? Yes basically double checking them. Anyway ran 200rds without any issues last night!!!!!!!! I know that's not a lot of rounds but it is for this gun to get through 200rds with out fail! Thanks to Dawson Precision! Edited September 26, 2012 by bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Update: I ended up sending the gun to DP they got the gun running flawless!!!!! Thanks DP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extremo Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) What did they do to it? Edited November 29, 2012 by Extremo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 New barrel and extractor. No cost to me, one of the advantages of purchasing through Dawson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40S&W Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I agree send it back to STI. More than likely the ramp is incorrectly cut. 40 S&W rounds sit high in a mag and don't have that much movement upward. I use 40 S&W unramped barrels and they work just fine when the mouth is opened up just a little, then you can shoot factory short and long loads. Just my 2 cents. Don't have any feed problems with either my single or double stack guns. Mags can also be a problem with the height they sit at. If you get it back and nothing changed then take it to a real good gunsmith who knows 40's with your mags. It might turn out that it is the ramp & mag height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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