usmc1974 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 What do ya'll think? Match M1A, prone. bipod, 6-24 scope. 147fmjbt 2900 fps 16 inch square target .Thanks B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think you can hit it. But, probably not on the first shot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think you can hit it. But, probably not on the first shot.... Or maybe the first mag. I'd look into loads with 155 Palma bullets in order to stay supersonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Try any of the 175's or the Berger 185 if your barrel will stabilize it. The 147 M80 ball projo has the ballistic coefficient of a ping pong ball, combined with the accuracy of a Red Ryder. Chances of an on-call shot at 1k are nil and hits would not be a result of skillful shooting. Mark Occasional Palma shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Isn't most match ammo for .308/7.62 somewhere around 168 or 175 grains? And personally, for soft targets beyond 800m, I'm switching to the main gun and firing bursts of HE. "Gunner - HE - troops - 1000!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) The course of fire starts at 300 400 500...ect. I also have a dope sheet ( ballistic calulator )to work off of. 2 shots at range out to 1200 yards I have some 168hpbt bullets I could load up.Thanks guys Edited July 25, 2012 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Umm .. the 168 Sierra won't work either, at least from an M14. Shortcomings beyond 800 with the 168's that were loaded in Lake City 852 ammo were the reason the 175 Sierra was developed. Per a friend involved in testing, the 175's performance parameters were that it had to stabilize in 1-12" barrels and remain supersonic at 1,000 at sea level under standard atmospheric conditions. The last few years I shot the M14, I used 175's for all stages (200 - 1,000 yards) with varying amounts of IMR4064. Simple enough that even we Jarheads couldn't screw it up! Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Simple enough that even we Jarheads couldn't screw it up! Cheers Mark Hummm,,I'll remember you said that...lol Edited July 25, 2012 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I was able to do it with 155 gr bullets. I am going to try 175 gr next. It was much easier with a scope. I did try it with irons. Took about 10 shots to get on it. I was guessing on elevation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) So, are the 175's that much better in a boltgun over the 168's all being BTHP-M's? Edited July 29, 2012 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 So, are the 175's that much better in a boltgun over the 168's all being BTHP-M's? Yes, that's why they exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 So, are the 175's that much better in a boltgun over the 168's all being BTHP-M's? Yes, that's why they exist. Well, OK, then. I am going to leave the M1A home and run my R5 18.5 barrel and Sierra 175 HPBT-M with 44.7 grains Varget at 2.800 OAL muzzle vel 2610 fps. It seem to do very well at 100 yards all 5 into one ragged hole.( well all touching ) and about 2 inches at 300 yards. 300 is all we have at the CCGC in Topeka. I guess I will see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSCMike Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Does your R5 have a tapered scope base? If I remember correctly, my PSS w/26" barrel and 175gr GMM needed about 44 MOA up from the 100 yd zero to be close at 1000. You may run out of scope adjustment with a standard base. If you are using Mil Dots that may not be a big problem. Even then a change of a few degrees in ambient temp or small changes in humidity could move the POI from the X to the 8 ring on a standard 1000 yard bull. For those who are used to 600 yards and in, the 1000 yard shot is a whole other animal. Good luck and good shooting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Umm .. the 168 Sierra won't work either, at least from an M14. Shortcomings beyond 800 with the 168's that were loaded in Lake City 852 ammo were the reason the 175 Sierra was developed. Per a friend involved in testing, the 175's performance parameters were that it had to stabilize in 1-12" barrels and remain supersonic at 1,000 at sea level under standard atmospheric conditions. The last few years I shot the M14, I used 175's for all stages (200 - 1,000 yards) with varying amounts of IMR4064. Simple enough that even we Jarheads couldn't screw it up! Cheers Mark it has been a very long time ago and the wife claims my memory left me long ago. but i am sure we/I used 168's in the M21 with the ART 1 scope. i do not think i ever knew or cared what brand of bullet. so i must ask what shortcoming? but it was simplier then, like the spotter saying right stadia (?) line left breast pocket, scope magnification self adjusted the scope range and pull trigger. watching TV today with all the things they use to figure out that first shot, i often wonder how they have time to in put data, etc without losing the target. i am sure it does make for more first round hits and todays bullets a better at 1k, but again what short comings? Last year, i did by first ever (and only) 1K match using a 20" AR with factory loaded black hills 77 OTM 5.56, the people were nice but can not say how many looks of fear i got when they realized what i was shooting. i got one X a couple of 10's and 2 misses. i did promise not to come back until i got a better caliber for the task, because it made several uneasy at first. and no that was the first time shooting that far with a AR in 5.56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browtine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Well, OK, then. I am going to leave the M1A home and run my R5 18.5 barrel and Sierra 175 HPBT-M with 44.7 grains Varget at 2.800 OAL muzzle vel 2610 fps. It seem to do very well at 100 yards all 5 into one ragged hole.( well all touching ) and about 2 inches at 300 yards. 300 is all we have at the CCGC in Topeka. I guess I will see how it goes. I shot at 1150 this weekend with that exact load in a 20" bolt gun. Needed 16 mils to get there. Edited July 30, 2012 by Browtine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Does your R5 have a tapered scope base? If I remember correctly, my PSS w/26" barrel and 175gr GMM needed about 44 MOA up from the 100 yd zero to be close at 1000. You may run out of scope adjustment with a standard base. If you are using Mil Dots that may not be a big problem. Even then a change of a few degrees in ambient temp or small changes in humidity could move the POI from the X to the 8 ring on a standard 1000 yard bull. For those who are used to 600 yards and in, the 1000 yard shot is a whole other animal. Good luck and good shooting... i know what you are saying, but sometimes some make it harder than it has to be. at last years 3 gun pro/am LaRue had a 1k stage (side match) there people, ammo and weapons, you got 5 shots, i got 2 out of 5 (how in the hell do you guys use horus recitle)anyway i do not remember his name but the Metal Of Honor winner was spotting the gun next to me. his shooters had 0 hits, this is a LaRue 308 AR with a swivel bipod on the front shooting at LaRue self resetting steel very small to a standard 1k bull, anyway as i was thanking my spotter, he picked up the rifle standing free hand with wind on is 2nd shot the steel went down and he just srugged his shoulders and said it on. very true story, that saw first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 This just 16 inch square hanging steel set out. It starts at 300 400 500 ect out to 1200 you get 2 shots at each target 20 rounds total for this stage. I am new to it but like it very much, no way to game it or luck. Some of these guys are just damm good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You can hit a target at 1000yd with a 69gr .223 round if you try. The reason the .308 168gr is so popular is that it has been used for quite some time by both military and law enforcement because it's a very ballistically effective round at distances they normally shoot (100-600yd). It's behavior is extremely well documented which makes it easier to correct for things like temperature and wind. But at much beyond 700yds, performance starts to drop off. Read this for more info. The 175gr match has come on strong with the military because more and more they are having to take longer shots than they used to. The 175gr bullets do much better, particularly in wind at 800yds on out. But weight is not the only factor. I can pretty much match the ballistics of the 175gr match ammo with my 155gr loads at 1000yds because I'm able to shoot them much faster, even from a 20" barrel. But there is a new generation of long range bullet, the Hornady 178gr, that beats everything else out there. There is also an Amax hunting version that isn't too far off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSCMike Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 ...he picked up the rifle standing free hand with wind on is 2nd shot the steel went down and he just srugged his shoulders and said it on. very true story, that saw first hand. These things happen. Once after an IDPA match I was doing some slow fire with my STI 40 cal 2011 at 20 yards for groups...just something I do to remind me I can still hit the target when I aim On this particular Fall day there were two other shooters with me and as we were shooting a fly landed on the face of the target and just walked around. Every time we shot it would fly a short distance and land on the target again. I dared one of the others to shoot the fly and they just looked at me and said YOU shoot it. I have to admit it took 3 shots but I dead centered that fly on that 3rd shot WITH WITNESSES When we looked at the target there was the bullet hole with a perfectly symmetrical fly gut splatter circle around it. Now I meant to do it, said I would do it and then did it...but it was STILL blind luck. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Why not a 190 hpbt or 200 hpbt? You can get lucky , but you will still need a good understanding of long range shooting to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSCMike Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Just be sure they don't go sub-sonic before they reach the target...that plays heck with bullet stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Why not a 190 hpbt or 200 hpbt? It's all about the ballistics of the bullet itself and what kind of speed you can send it at. The 155 Palma's I've been shooting have a lower BC than the 175 match but have a faster muzzle velocity which more or less evens them out. The 190 & 200gr bullets don't have quite as good a BC as the 175's and are slower. Plus, many .308 barrels are 1:12 twist which is a bit slow for the longer 200's, which further hampers performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Just be sure they don't go sub-sonic before they reach the target...that plays heck with bullet stability. that why i made them uneasy, because i my data said at some point just pass 900 yards, the bullet would be sub-sonic. and did not know if i would any control over it. also that sub sonic shoots are a possible danger to the people working the pits. i guess i proved myself, i was very happy. 1 of my misses was when i check everthing, range flag etc. pulled trigger then looked at the flag and it was dead. the other miss i have no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Just be sure they don't go sub-sonic before they reach the target...that plays heck with bullet stability. Mike, i think it was your back yard the 1k range at the air force base. the new guy that had to leave early, which later Morpheous (TGO) fuss on be about because it ended up one person short. that a great group of guys, at least until they find what what the new is shooting! tell them thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now