Hybrid Barrel or Bull Barrel with drilled holes

[OperationHitFactor]

Gun is 38 Super.

I like holes, ports, or popples generally speaking. My question is has anyone shot similar setups with knowledge of performance pros and cons in regard to if a barrel with a hybrid rib with ports machined is any better than a bull barrel with a few holes drilled?

Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Seems to me that guns track a little better that are drilled with smaller holes, but maybe it's perception or the particular set up.

Thanks

[nipplehead]

Gun is 38 Super.

I like holes, ports, or popples generally speaking. My question is has anyone shot similar setups with knowledge of performance pros and cons in regard to if a barrel with a hybrid rib with ports machined is any better than a bull barrel with a few holes drilled?

Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Seems to me that guns track a little better that are drilled with smaller holes, but maybe it's perception or the particular set up.

Thanks

Here is a little in-dept research on the subject at least in the case of popple holes..and how the make the Pro Sx a forgiving, easy to shoot shorty.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=101799

Edited June 19, 2012 by nipplehead

[OperationHitFactor]

That is a great write up. Thanks

What I'm trying to decide between is a hybrid barrel or a barrel with holes drilled. The way it seems to me with the set ups I've shot so far is:

Hybrid Barrels with 3-4 ports machined from the factory, require really hot loads, have a more total dot movement, but stay very flat. Best way I can describe this is dot kind of shakes about then calms down.

Guns with 2-4 barrel holes drilled by a smith into the bull barrel which are usually very small. Dot kind of lifts up and drops down. Fairly flat, more dot rise but a more stable dot rise.

Guns with comps only the least flat of the group, but with a nice up and down dot movement.

I know I've just over generalized the crap out of this and some guns/systems/loads make this generalization a dogmatic bastard. Some comp only guns are very flat, some guns with holes break wrist. However, based on the 30 or so guns I could get my hands on this last year this is the general impression I got.

For me the comp only guns were the easiest to time and shoot kind of like on cruise control.

The bull barrel with holes drilled, let me shoot the quickest and call my shots the best, but required a fair amount of concentration.

The hybrid barrel set ups, honestly, I was just pulling the trigger and by a chance they happened to be going in the Azone. I had a hard time shot calling and was just taking follow up shots on faith by putting a wiggle over the Azone.

So whats the deal? My instincts tell me to go with a comp only gun with a slot left in the slide a maybe drill a few small holes later.

However, a few people say I will grow into the hybrid gun set up as my skill improves I will be able to time it better and that hybrid holes are the only holes to have

I'm about to spend a lot of money on a custom build, but before I pull the trigger wondering if hybrid holes are really better or if I drilling them later will work as good if I think I need them.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Hybrid barrel with the big holes does not work for me. It has alot of weight up front and seems slow on transitions to me. A bull barrel with 2 or 3 small "Hill Hell Holes" works better and is lighter. I like lighter pistols so take that into account. The type of powder you use and bullet weight can change the personality of a pistol alot. I shot an old Caspian 38TJ open pistol not long ago, it is heavy and uses 124 grain bullets with N350. The owner thought it shot very flat but my 9mm bull barreled pistol shoots flatter and softer. I vote for the bull barrel but others will say the hybrid Thanks, Eric

[OperationHitFactor]

Thanks Eric, I decided to take 9 major off the table for this build. I was really considering a build in 9 major, but I couldn't find anyone running HS6, only Autocomp. Which to me I didn't like as much as some of the super guns I shot. Maybe down the road, but I'm 30 and still have a good back.

I here you on front heavy guns.

My build will be using a caspisn government lightened slide cut back to length.

DP2 or Azone Comp.

Barrel will be either a Scheumann Hybrid 2 port commander or an Infinity 5 inch total length(not the 5.5) bull barrel with .4inch of thread cut with 3 small holes or no holes.

Standard STI 2011 Frame

Goverment recoil system. You'll see the reverse plug sticking out a bit.

[Mat Price]

I have both set ups. And like them both to be honest. My 9 major gun has 3 small holes. My 38 sc gun has a 4 hole hybrid.

From shooting these two set ups what I have learned is what I really want out of my gun.

It has to have a super light slide. Popple holes and and aluminum grip. Plus a tungstone guide rod. See where I going I like henry gun with a fast slide. So I am thinking on my next build of using a full dust cover slide and cutting it back just a bit longer than a standard.

[38supPat]

I'm going lighter and lighter. Right now my old Millenium gun is running a skinny barrel with a steel cone comp with holes drilled through the comp into the barrel. This gun has always worked well for me and I can really drive it. My current gun is more of an experimental platform. It started as an SVI IMM but since it is so hard to make major in it I had a new top end built. The first version had a hybrid barrel with two holes drilled in it.a full length Caspian slide and a steel Millenium comp. I really never liked this set up it was just too heavy. We rebuilt it this year and put a lightened (11oz) slide on it with a Millenium Ti comp. this set up so far seems much much better. The gun responds much better. It's fairly flat but also tracks well. I'm pretty much set, from what I have learned with this set up, that my next gun will be a bull barrel, likely a Bar-Sto, Ti comp, plastic grip, plastic mainspring housing, aluminum mag well. I'll be aiming for a 40oz gun.

[OperationHitFactor]

Cool Mat, I'd like to see what you come up with. Check out Millenium Custom's website for ideas. Derrick has a few open builds that use a longer dust cover.

Thanks Pat,

I'm going with a Millenium build for my next gun. I decided I wanted two guns from two builders. One from Derrick at Millenium the other from Dave Pruitt. I decided to go for Dave on the first build since he has some time and doesn't have time for much gunsmithing these days. He agreed a while ago and now I'm on the clock, decision time, I have to pick. We have talked about a few different designs and what I would like out of them. I'll make the decision this weekend as I'm meeting up with him to try out a few different set ups. I attached a picture form his website, as this is most likely the gun I will be ordering. I'm going to shoot a similar set up with him this weekend to make a final decision. I'll write up what I decide on, then post picks when it's done.

[lcs]

I have both designs. Cone comp barrel with 4 small holes and is full size; however, it weighs in around 39oz. I have an IMM style hybrid with just 3 holes versus the standard 4. Both guns are 38SC and I shoot 3N37 or 3N38 with 124/125. Not sure what the weight of the hybrid is, but it is heavier in the nose. In addition, I use aluminum guide rods in both.

I concur with your observation about dot movement of each gun. The hybrid was a recent build so I can't really determine which style of gun is better for me. One thing I can say, the concussion from the hybrid will rock your teeth compared to the small popple hole gun.

The Dave Pruitt gun looks really sharp and light. Looks like the best of both worlds.

[diehli]

Why do you have to use the pre-drilled barrel? Seems that if a GS were going to drill a bull barrel, he could just as easily drill a blank hybrid rib.

[38supPat]

The rib adds weight to the barrel

[diehli]

The rib adds weight to the barrel

This place needs more smileys, 'cause I'd use the :scratch: one to wonder if/why that was directed at me.

[OperationHitFactor]

I don't have to use a pre drilled barrel. Dave gave me a few options and I decided to throw out the options on the Enos table. I rather enjoy technical discussions with Gorillas. So, here I am deciding my Open future with a primate. I'm not sure of the point of this discussion, but we are having it

[diehli]

My point was merely that a hybrid barrel need not be limiting in powder choice or the potential for concussion. Makes lightening the slide a bit easier, too. And an end mill can take weight out of the rib.

[OperationHitFactor]

Hybrid barrels don't come in mid lengths, unless you go with an SV. Problem is that it's a full length rib. However, you just pointed out to me the rib could be lightened a bit. Now you have me thinking... We also need a banana emoticon, because you just earned yourself a banana.

[diehli]

:laugh: (Dammit.)

Yep, I've got an SV IMM 9x19 barrel here ready to go in my next build.

The milling wasn't my idea. Borrowed it from Mr. Cheely who posted a pic of a 6" Sight Tracker he built with three slots milled into the rib. I figure one medium-sized slot behind the ports I'll have the 'smith drill will be a nice reduction.

[CocoBolo]

The DP2 comp won't need the holes, but offsets your attempt to shorten the gun. The A-Zone comp works very well with the Hybrid barrel set up and that is what AKAI is building, we have 5 shooters here locally running that rig in 38SC, they shoot very nice and flat.

The Bull Barrel guns that Smiths build and drill, are custom tuned, to either what the Smith feels works best or based on customer feed back, while the Hybrid is a standard design one size fits all. The AZone comp if you ask AKAI might just be tuned to the Hybrid making it a tuned system.

I was all into my cone comped super light gun, but lately I've been shooting my bull gun with a tungsten guide rod and find it is wicked fast. Other than that bit of extra fat the girls are twins. A little extra chub seems to help control the gun.

[OperationHitFactor]

The DP2 comp is not an option, I mentioned that earlier because a lot of people don't know the difference. Azone comp for me all the way.

Based on some input here and a few PM's, I think the mid length will be right up my alley.

Edited June 24, 2012 by OperationHitFactor

[OperationHitFactor]

So, I met up with Pruitt today for some T&E.

The Shorty - Picture posted earlier

A bit flatter than the fullsize, but a bit more stout(still pretty soft though). Dot tracked very nicely and gun pointed amazing. Overall, I really liked this gun, it was soft, much softer than any other shorty and felt natural pointing it around.

The Fullsize - Picture below

One thing I will never understand is how the hell Dave can make a fullsize gun weigh 38oz. It must be chicken bones and vodoo, with a bit of witchcraft. Eitherway the fullsize gun shoots amazing. Not as flat as the shorty(still very flat though), softer, and amazingly pointed pretty much the same, I did favor the shorty in this area though.

So the choice is still up in the air. I have to do some thinking. I stand corrected though, hybrid holes can track nicely, it's called N350

He has told me before and it's finally sinking in. You just need a reasonably soft gun, with good dot tracking, and fairly flat shooting, with lots and lots of practice. There is no perfect system, you just pick a good system and get great with it.

Edit to add: Also it must be 100%, his main focus is on reliability. Function over form.

Edited June 24, 2012 by OperationHitFactor

[user293]

along with n350 and hybrids, I found that 3n38 is the real deal. ive shot it all in my hybrid, and 3n38 with 124/125's is awesome. 115's, it gets a lil wild. somethin to consider with hybrids. i dunno how it behaves with drilled holes.

[Godzilla]

1340324119[/url]' post='1729385']

Hybrid barrels don't come in mid lengths, unless you go with an SV. Problem is that it's a full length rib. However, you just pointed out to me the rib could be lightened a bit. Now you have me thinking... We also need a banana emoticon, because you just earned yourself a banana.

Actually you can get an hybrid barrel in three different rib lengths. 3, 4 or 5 port lengths, with or without holes.

[diehli]

1340324119[/url]' post='1729385']

Hybrid barrels don't come in mid lengths, unless you go with an SV. Problem is that it's a full length rib. However, you just pointed out to me the rib could be lightened a bit. Now you have me thinking... We also need a banana emoticon, because you just earned yourself a banana.

Actually you can get an hybrid barrel in three different rib lengths. 3, 4 or 5 port lengths, with or without holes.

In a 5" (4.5" slide) configuration from SV? Does SV know this?

[OperationHitFactor]

^^I was part of that conversation and I don't even know what we are talking about.

Schuemann Barrels:

Commander barrels, AET Only, 3-port rib with either no ports or 2-ports machined.

Government barrels, 3, 4, or 5 port rib with or with out ports

SV Infinity:

Will cut various lengths, with or without ports. If not in stock, then you have to back order.

Have full length ribs regardless of ports, need to take extra steps to machine the slide, not a huge deal, but extra labor.

Full length ribs add extra weight, can be machined a bit but again extra work.

What I want in a perfect world:

A Schuemann Mid Length barrel, 5 inch barrel with about a half inch threaded, so a little longer than a Commander, but a little short than a Government. Personally for me I think it would be a great system. But hey, maybe I'm stupid.

^^Edit to say a hybrid mid length with a 3 port rib 2 or 3 holes machined.

Edited July 3, 2012 by OperationHitFactor

[Mat Price]

You realize that it not a very difficult task for a good machieneist

[OperationHitFactor]

First problem is that won't work properly to machine a hybrid barrel that is tapered for a full length, problem two is expense. By the time you get a barrel and have it machined down. Plus, unless the machines/machinist are very very good. The ports will not come out anywhere near as good as the Scheumann ports. Again, I'm not trying to cause a stink, just think it would be cool for a mid length to be available. The biggest issue I have is that most machinist will say no problem, then after you invest a great deal of money you get a paperweight. Good machinist don't always mean good gunsmiths and good gunsmiths are not always good machinist. I bet there are only 5 guys in the country who are straight up gurus at both sides of the puzzle.

Some guns look good, but shoot like dirt. Others shoot like good, but look like dirt. Then there are some guns that just are just plain awful in every way. In the end for time and expense, I decided on a 5.5 3 port rib with 3 ports machined. Which honestly the gun doesn't quite balance the way I would like, but I had to make a compromise somewhere. I also considered a commander hybrid, but they only come in AET at the moment. So in the end, there is no perfect system, you pick something as close as you can to your ideal platform and settle. But spending upwards of 5k and settling is a bit like getting married to a person you kind of love, but wish you had better. Then again, probably why divorce happens and we have classifieds. But getting rid of something you settle on, isn't cheap.