Cy Soto Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 This past weekend at a local match I get called to the line to begin my COF. Before the RO gives me the "Make Ready" command he yells "Range is Going Hot." I have the tendency to do a full speed draw when I hear the RO say "Make Ready" (as if I was responding to the buzzer). I was using double-up hearing protection and I moved my hands to grab the gun as soon as I heard him speak. It took me a fraction of a second to recognize what he said and, thankfully, I didn't pull the gun out of the holster and DQ'ed. This experience has made me rethink my "Make Ready" procedure but I would still like to ask: if I had pulled the gun out of the holster at that time, would I have had any recourse to appeal a DQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpygravy Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Good catch. Before the MR command is issued, DQ. A gentleman at my home club has DQ'd himself for just that at practices and matches. Suggestion: If you want to do a full speed practice draw after MR, ask to do so with a test tone from the timer. Can't say whether or not this is even advisable or if you really want to make this part of your regular routine. Personally, I would not have any objections, your squad mates may/may not feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Part of my MR routine is to leave my earplugs partially out. When i hear "MR", then i put my plug in, and grab my gun and do the rest of my thing. Glad you were able to catch yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I can see both sides of the fence on this. If I'm ROing at a match where there is a lot of solid walls and barrels, I'll check down range as usual, count my squad then say "going hot". At the same time I'm watching the shooter to make sure that exact thing doesn't happen. In my opinion if they draw their gun its MY fault as a RO for not using the correct range commands and not the shooters. At my match we use walls that you can easily see through and I don't use that practice. I would rather be safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Harrington Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Another reason to use proper range commands. It doesn't bother me much except when I get to a Level II or bigger match. I would change your make ready procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosshooter00 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Did you bring it to the attention of the RO that he used the incorrect commands? That is exactly why we have them. At a level 1 event, I would have argued, anything higher than level 1 and it shouldn't happen. Personally, because of listless tapers and brassers at level 1, I will put a hand on the shoulder of my on deck shooter and clear the range. Not a good habit, but it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 I would change your make ready procedure. You are absolutely correct! In the 4 yrs that I have been shooting, this is the closest I have been to a DQ. I understand that a DQ is eventually inevitable but I would have kicked myself in the behind for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Did you bring it to the attention of the RO that he used the incorrect commands? That is exactly why we have them. I didn't and, more so, I have been guilty of yelling the same thing to clear the range on occasions when I am RO'ing. Now I know that I need to rethink that practice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Did you bring it to the attention of the RO that he used the incorrect commands? That is exactly why we have them. That doesn't sound like a 'range command', since it came *before* 'make ready'. more like information/warning for tapers and bystanders that they need to be prepared with eye/ear protection etc.... Not much different than 'lets pick up brass', or any of the other extraneous things RO's might say when not in the midst of supervising the COF. But I'm pretty careful, so I usually look the RO in the eyes until I get a 'make ready' command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Harrington Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Personally, I like to hear the proper range commands given in the proper order. It's completely understandable at a Level I match when the proper range commands aren't given. There just aren't enough certified RO's at a club match. However, anything above a club match level should have CERTIFIED RO's using the proper range commands. Just my .02. Hold out as long as you can for that first DQ. I traveled 15 hours round trip for Area 3 for my first. I highly recommend doing it at a local match if you have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I think you caught the real problem with your routine " tendency to do a full speed draw when I hear the RO say "Make Ready". I see other shooters inserting loaded mags, sight picture, drop hammer, and then rack slide and holster. Someday, they are going to rack the slide with a loaded mag and then "bang". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay870 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I am all for proper range commands, but the RO is responsible for a lot on the stage and we can't tie their hands to the 7 verbatim utterances listed in the rule book. I think it needs to be on the shooter. You make ready when you have been issued the "Make Ready" command, not on the first sound you hear escape the RO's mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 This is one of the reasons I do not talk, bullshit, make noise, touch, or interact with the shooter until I say "Make Ready" I try to make sure that is the first thing I say to anyone on the line. On a side note... I have had many a new shooter and experienced shooter stand outside the start position as if waiting for me to tell them to stand in the box or start position or anything like that. Some even get a little upset because I did not tell them to get into the start position and then say “MR”??? What is going on here? Am I responsible for making sure they know they are allowed to get in the start position? This is not a Make Ready start position this is simply the “I’m next” position…… If yer next then git yer ass to the spot! Am I crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Harrington Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 This is one of the reasons I do not talk, bullshit, make noise, touch, or interact with the shooter until I say "Make Ready" I try to make sure that is the first thing I say to anyone on the line. On a side note... I have had many a new shooter and experienced shooter stand outside the start position as if waiting for me to tell them to stand in the box or start position or anything like that. Some even get a little upset because I did not tell them to get into the start position and then say “MR”??? What is going on here? Am I responsible for making sure they know they are allowed to get in the start position? This is not a Make Ready start position this is simply the “I’m next” position…… If yer next then git yer ass to the spot! Am I crazy? Not at all. I do the same thing. It usually ends with them asking if they can make ready. I tell them they can as soon as they are in the starting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I try not to say a thing to the shooter before make ready. Especially with indoor matches the echoes in the range can be strange, throw in some plugs or muffs and you can have a shooter unholstering when they hear "man, that's a nice rig you have there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 We have enough RO's that clear the range then call the shooter up. Enough so that I thought it was part of the routine until I took a RO class and found that it wasn't. I'm quite sure that these RO's have been doing the same thing for years and that they would look at you like you were from Mars if someone told them not to do it. I recognize that it's not part of the proscribed litany and I understand the reasoning behind that. But, just to be the devils advocate for a minute, I think that it's actually a good idea to do something like that to make sure that no one is down range, that people move back from the line and get their ears on and shut up enough that the shooter can actually here what's being said. In fact, given the emphasis on safety, I'm rather surprised that it's not a part of the routine. This is the first shooting event that I can think of where it's not done. After all, the range is declared clear at the end. So, I have to wonder if the RO stepped in front of the shooter and made the announcement, then stepped back behind and gave the Make Ready, would that be more acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Does anyone consider "Range going hot" one of those "warnings" like "finger" or "muzzle"? Just wondering. At a Level II match a few months ago, an RO yelled "Range going hot" and the shooter, who speaks only English, drew his gun. After some discussion with the RM and heated comments from squad mates, the shooter was allowed to continue in the match. The RO was told to use only the official USPSA range commands. If someone in the peanut gallery gets their ears or eyes hurt because they didn't have their plugs or glasses in place, that is their fault. If you're at a shooting match and aren't cognizant of what is going on around you, you probably shouldn't be at a shooting match. While some ROs say they yell "Make Ready" loud enough for the audience to hear, I do not. The only person who needs to hear me is the person who has my complete attention...the shooter. Edited June 19, 2012 by remoandiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeinated Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 If I'm in doubt about whether the make ready command was given then I ask the RO to confirm it has been. I wear electronic muffs over molded plugs when I shoot and you can pick up a lot of noise from bystanders. It's frustrating when people are close to the shooter and running their mouths to each other, but it happens. I RO at our local matches a fair amount and it is not uncommon to have to give direction to someone other than the shooter prior to the shooter making ready, such as asking people to back away from the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Ultimately, it's up to the shooter to be sure the RO said "Make Ready." What if the RO had said "Stop!", "Can I get you to step forward", or "Hey, look, a badger!"? I'm an advocate of using proper range commands. It grates on my nerves a little each time someone asks me if I understand the course of fire or tells me to LAMR (but not enough to complain about someone who is volunteering their time to make a match possible). But when you have a stage with solid walls or a complicated layout and there's only one RO, I think we can tolerate a non-standard "Range Going Hot" to be sure there isn't a slow taper or air gunner about to get swept by a loaded gun. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Does anyone consider "Range going hot" one of those "warnings" like "finger" or "muzzle"? Just wondering. I consider all of those warnings to be generally inappropriate at a USPSA match. The range commands should be given exactly by the book, and the RO should otherwise keep quiet and pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The following is a conglomeration of range commands heard recently at local matches: Range is going hot! Eyes and ears! Shooter, do you know and understand the course of fire? The range is yours to load and make ready. Shooter ready. **BEEP** If through, unload and show clear. Gun is clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Range is safe. The only correct one is the start signal (**BEEP**)! Seriously, how hard is it to get the range commands right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 When I run shooters through a weird stage with walls etc. I make it a habit to be the last one off the range. I always stay downrange watching the tapers until they make their way back. I stay away from the next shooter making sure everyone gets back until I'm ready to give the make ready command. That way there is no question when it is given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 But, just to be the devils advocate for a minute, I think that it's actually a good idea to do something like that to make sure that no one is down range, that people move back from the line and get their ears on and shut up enough that the shooter can actually here what's being said. In fact, given the emphasis on safety, I'm rather surprised that it's not a part of the routine. This is the first shooting event that I can think of where it's not done. After all, the range is declared clear at the end. It is the responsibility of the RO to make sure the range is clear before commencing with the CoF. I usually walk behind everybody as they are clearing the stage, making sure I'm the last one and making sure no one goes back up range. If I feel the need to yell "Going Hot" for whatever reason, I make sure the shooter is aware of what I am doing. I usually stand right in front of the shooter telling the shooter to wait before I yell the "going hot". I also look at them when I initially yell it, making sure they don't draw and seeing their reaction. After all, I don't need to be looking anywhere else at that exact time. I have had people down range in more than one occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moverfive Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) First of all, based on how this was described, improper range commands were not given. The Range Commands begin with "Make Ready" and ends with "Range is Clear." Anything in between those commands is covered by the rulebook......anything said outside of all of that is fair game. To say otherwise, that would mean the RO cannot utter a single word except for the range commands. Now to have a lot of chatter and distractions going on while the shooter is listening for "Make Ready" can cause some confusion......but let's make sure that is characterized as such and not called improper range commands. Edited June 19, 2012 by moverfive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Personally, I like to hear the proper range commands given in the proper order. It's completely understandable at a Level I match when the proper range commands aren't given. There just aren't enough certified RO's at a club match. However, anything above a club match level should have CERTIFIED RO's using the proper range commands. Just my .02. Are you saying that the proper range commands are the ONLY thing the RO should be allowed to say at all, ever? Obviously that would be silly because the proper range commands don't include any of the banter required for scoring, or communication with the scorekeeper regarding who's next, etc, so there must be some start and end point within which only the 'proper range commands' should be expected. IMHO, before 'make ready' is given, the RO should be able to say a variety of things, speak to the squad or peanut gallery, or whatever. The shooter should be listening for 'make ready', not for any random utterance out of the RO's mouth. I really don't see anything in the original post that suggests the proper range commands weren't given in the proper order. The OP simply reported that he almost responded to a general warning that came BEFORE the proper range command sequence began. I'm ok with that. If I pulled out my gun in response to anything other than a 'make ready' command, I would expect to be dq'd. The only exception i can think of is if the RO was using non-standard commands instead of make ready, such as if he had told previous shooters to 'lock and load', 'get ready to party', 'git er done', or whatever other colloquial expressions might be used. Even then, I'd probably just wait for 'make ready'. Seems to me the simplest solution is to wait for 'make ready' before drawing one's weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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