STI GP6 Long-Term/Future..?

[Canuck223]

The gap you are describing doesn't sound right, and it's not what I would expect so that's why I asked about pictures.

As you hinted, for accuracy, the big factor is the repeatable lock up while in battery.

Outside of battery, the gun can be AK-47 loose without any negative effect on accuracy.

The MK7 guns outside of the X-Calibur and X-Trim are built to be somewhat Glockish in their tolerances.

Not sloppy, but built for reliable functioning in service conditions first.

[serghey24]

Well, tomorrow or Tuesday I will try to contact the armorer to let me take some pics and measure the side to side drift of the back slide.

But how about the back sights?

Is it normal for them to be placed off center in the dovetail, by an estimate of 2 mm, related to the center of the slide?

Do they calibrate the sights of each gun in the factory, to shoot POA before final packing?

Or they just put them in the dovetail and let the final owner to calibrate them to suit his/her shooting stile?

[Canuck223]

Well, tomorrow or Tuesday I will try to contact the armorer to let me take some pics and measure the side to side drift of the back slide.

But how about the back sights?

Is it normal for them to be placed off center in the dovetail, by an estimate of 2 mm, related to the center of the slide?

Do they calibrate the sights of each gun in the factory, to shoot POA before final packing?

Or they just put them in the dovetail and let the final owner to calibrate them to suit his/her shooting stile?

[serghey24]

Well, I finally managed to get the K100.

I must say that now, after a more thorough evaluation of the handgun I came to the following conclusions:

1. My eyeballing was terrible off when I first evaluated the slide/frame looseness and the off center position of the back sight. This makes me worry(genuinely) since until now my eyeballing was always exact. There is minimal looseness between slide and frame. Also the back sight is off center but by just a fraction of a millimeter.

2. After performing some dry fire drills I came to the following conclusions:

-the trigger is indeed beautiful and the sights are also very nice, especially considering that this is the standard K100 mk7.

-the magazine release is a little stiff at the beginning but after you use it a few times(actually around 100 times) it became easier to actuate it by either the thumb or the trigger finger. I would recommend purchasing the larger button if it is intended for soft skinned fingers or if the user plans on using it a lot(small magazine capacity).

-the magazines: the standard 15 round magazines(the ones with longer, red/orange follower) can accommodate 16 rounds(after filing and emptying them a few times to loosen up), loading them manually. The 17 rounds magazines(the ones with shorter, black follower) can accommodate 17 rounds only if I force the last one in by using a metal tool to push on the rounds-which is rather strange.

-in manipulating the slide(weak hand over the top manner) a person with medium/large hands might cover the ejection port with the fingers(or with the palm if he/she is a lefty). So this method requires a lot of practice to ensure that the grip of the weak hand on the slide is exactly where it is supposed to be(not much of error margin). However, since the back sight is so beautifully rounded, it will not hurt the palm if it slides over the upper side of the frame.

-the pinching method is working well in manipulating the slide.

-cocking/decocking the gun is easily done with one hand because the thumb has very good and positive control over the hammer. The 2 handed method works even better, so, even with terribly oily hands I had no problem in pulling the trigger and easing the hammer down

-safety is good enough, even if it does not protrude very much on the outside.

Edited August 25, 2013 by serghey24

[attrapereves]

Do you get an audible click when manually cocking the hammer, then pushing the trigger ever so slightly (but not enough to drop the hammer/fire the gun)?

Not sure if my gun is functioning normally or not as sometimes the gun does not fire when I pull the trigger. It always fires on the second pull though. I haven't determined if it's me not letting the trigger reset fully or if its the gun...

[serghey24]

Yes, mine does that too. A slight click right at the beginning of the SA trigger pull(I can not even estimate how much I need to pull the trigger before it does that click-something in the vicinity of the thickness of a human hair).

I guess it is the reset point, if I pull the trigger, while holding the hammer and lowering it in a controlled fashion for about 1/3 of its total travel(and then hold it there with my fingers-I just put my finger between the hammer and the firing pin) and then slowly release the trigger I can definitely hear the same click in the same trigger position.

So, if I stop the trigger forward motion before the click it will not release the hammer if I re-cock it. If I hear the click then it will release the hammer.

[serghey24]

Hy again.

After playing a bit with my new K100 I got a few tings that I would like to ask you all:

1.The fast forwarding feature(stick a fresh magazine inside the gun and the slide will forward WITHOUT having to actuate the slide stop or slingshot it):

It freaks me out a little bit because, at least my pistol, is very sensitive. I mean that if the magazine is filled to its capacity(all 17 rounds) I just need to push it inside the gun and the slide will forward. Basically, in this case I can not put a new magazine in without the gun automatically forwarding the slide, no matter how gentle I push the magazine in.

If the mag is not fully filled then the fast forwarding happen only if I tap the magazine in with more determination.

To be honest, I do not care much about this feature(I prefer the slide to remain back until I decide to let it go into battery).

2.The slide stops: I noticed something strange:

If I actuate the slide stop on the RIGTH of the gun then it will move up in the notch in the slide fully on that side. But on the other side(the left side of the gun) the slide stop will be at about half the notch on that side of the slide.

In this situation(and of course without a magazine inside the gun), If I jiggle the gun, even slightly the slide will forward on its own(the slide stops will jump out of the notch in the slide).

But, If I actuate the right slide stop and then push the left one fully in the corresponding notch then the slide is locked more firmly to the back(I can still jiggle the gun so that it releases the slide but I need to shake it more violently).

Do that happen on your pistols also? Is there a way to make the slide stops hold the slide more firmly?

3.Another thing about the slide stops: They are very sensitive. Only a slight push on them and they will release the slide forward. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing because it allows the user to actuate them without moving the fingers too much.

But, I prefer to not use them to release the slide(I prefer to slingshot) so it is very frustrating when, in order to mark my targets, I put the gun on the shooting table(no magazine in, slide locked back-so that nobody will freak out with fear that there might be a live round in the chamber and at the same time the gun will be ready to accept a new magazine). Because in 9 cases out of 10 I hear the slide forwarding(because the table touches the slide stops) on empty chamber. And that is something that I hate.

Maybe I was "exposed" to different handguns-mostly European, but, in my experience at least, the slide stops can release the slide only if the user pushes down on them with some determination.

Please comment on this also.

Now, it passed my mind that perhaps he notches on the slide are a tad to shallow, or perhaps they are cut at a slight angle to the back.

Is it wise to put a very thin diamond file on them in order to make them deeper(by a hair thickens, no more) and also to make sure that the angle of their back is pointed towards the front of the gun(and by that ensuring that the slide will catch on the slide stops more firmly-even it might mean that the fast forwarding and the easy releasing of the slide by pushing down the slide stops will no longer be possible)?

[Canuck223]

Now, it passed my mind that perhaps he notches on the slide are a tad to shallow, or perhaps they are cut at a slight angle to the back.

Is it wise to put a very thin diamond file on them in order to make them deeper(by a hair thickens, no more) and also to make sure that the angle of their back is pointed towards the front of the gun(and by that ensuring that the slide will catch on the slide stops more firmly-even it might mean that the fast forwarding and the easy releasing of the slide by pushing down the slide stops will no longer be possible)?

If you e-mail the factory, they will give you the specs. You can order the guns from the factory with the slide stop notches cut deeper, but few bother.

I've never had a problem with the slide closing on me after I've set it down on the bench, but you could use a range flag.

[cpa5oh]

I shot the K100 in a pretty long practice session today - this really is a great gun...trigger is just too heavy for my taste. If anyone ever comes up with a trigger lightening kit, this would probably be the gun I'd compete with...DA down to 5-7 lbs, SA to 2-ish - the gun fits my hand better than any I've ever shot and might shoot flatter than my Glocks (which I get so high on I get chronic slide bite tracks.)

[serghey24]

If you e-mail the factory, they will give you the specs. You can order the guns from the factory with the slide stop notches cut deeper, but few bother.

I've never had a problem with the slide closing on me after I've set it down on the bench, but you could use a range flag.

The ordering of a new slide is not feasible for me because it bears a serial number and in order to do this in my country one has to go trough a very complicated procedure that can last up to 2 month and cost a lot of effort.

The e-mail part to the factory might be a winning idea. I will give the gun a few more shooting sesions, to make sure that it is not a "break in" issue.

The filing of the slide notches can be done relatively easy and precise.

The only issue I see on this plan is that the filing will take of the Tenifer treatment(which I understand that is about 0.5mm thick) in the notch. And that will definitely make the notch wear of more easily and probably will be a spot where the slide will theoretically rust.

And my number 3 issue is only happening when I engage the right slide stop(happening after a left hand shooting) and lay the pistol on its left side. When I engage the left one(sometimes I shoot right handed), It engages more firmly(issue number 2 in my previous post).

So, if one is right handed, might never engaged the slide stop on the right side of the gun.

[cpa5oh]

Would there be much interest in lightened hammer springs (companies like Wolf will custom make springs if bought in sufficient enough quantity?)

[serghey24]

Lighter hammer springs?

I do not know about you but I would certainly leave that as it is(hard). With the kind of inconsistent/dubious ammo/primer quality that I know that I will most likely encounter I will certainly like the advantages of a strong hit on the firing pin.

And anyway, if one shoots it in SA then the lighter spring has practically no influence.

But, once again, I am not living on the American Continent, so my opinion is purely academic.

[NicVerAZ]

We have this question a lot about this gun.

This is not a gun to mess up with as far as the trigger group is concerned. This is a very good gun if you are looking for something DA/SA competitive out of the box for a small price.

If you are on a budget and want to shoot production and like DA/SA guns, then it is strongly recommended.

If you have a lot of money and love tinkering, then I would recommend something else, something CZ or Tanfoglio, even maybe a 92.

[NicVerAZ]

Did you really MEASURE a 2lbs single action pull on this pistol? I doubt it.

[Canuck223]

Did you really MEASURE a 2lbs single action pull on this pistol? I doubt it.

Lighter hammer springs?

I do not know about you but I would certainly leave that as it is(hard). With the kind of inconsistent/dubious ammo/primer quality that I know that I will most likely encounter I will certainly like the advantages of a strong hit on the firing pin.

And anyway, if one shoots it in SA then the lighter spring has practically no influence.

But, once again, I am not living on the American Continent, so my opinion is purely academic.

Would there be much interest in lightened hammer springs (companies like Wolf will custom make springs if bought in sufficient enough quantity?)

There are plans in the works, but this will take some time to come to market.

Taking the stock 3.5# SA weight down to 2# safely can be done.

The problem is reliability and durability.

Mucking with stock parts will only get you so far and will decrease the parts service life.

[cpa5oh]

People run lighter hammer springs in CZ's and lighter striker springs in Glocks (I've got both and have had no reliability issues with either unless I went *really* light with the springs and tried to shoot the gun without using EITHER Federal primers OR an extended firing pin/striker. With lighter springs - but not the extremely light ones - I get about a 5.5#DA/2#SA pull with the CZ's and about a 3# pull with the Glocks with ZERO reliability issues...and I use Tula primers more often than not.) What's so different about this gun that a lighter hammer spring would render the gun an unreliable mess? Why would anyone want a 10#DA pull when they might could have it at 5#?

[serghey24]

Well,

I have done some more shooting today and I have discovered the cause of my frustrations:

2.The slide stops: I noticed something strange:

If I actuate the slide stop on the RIGTH of the gun then it will move up in the notch in the slide fully on that side. But on the other side(the left side of the gun) the slide stop will be at about half the notch on that side of the slide.

In this situation(and of course without a magazine inside the gun), If I jiggle the gun, even slightly the slide will forward on its own(the slide stops will jump out of the notch in the slide).

But, If I actuate the right slide stop and then push the left one fully in the corresponding notch then the slide is locked more firmly to the back(I can still jiggle the gun so that it releases the slide but I need to shake it more violently).

and

3.Another thing about the slide stops: They are very sensitive. Only a slight push on them and they will release the slide forward. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing because it allows the user to actuate them without moving the fingers too much.

But, I prefer to not use them to release the slide(I prefer to slingshot) so it is very frustrating when, in order to mark my targets, I put the gun on the shooting table(no magazine in, slide locked back-so that nobody will freak out with fear that there might be a live round in the chamber and at the same time the gun will be ready to accept a new magazine). Because in 9 cases out of 10 I hear the slide forwarding(because the table touches the slide stops) on empty chamber. And that is something that I hate.

They both can be traced to the slight asymmetry of the slide stop. Basically the left shoulder(the part that enters the notch on the slide) is 1mm lower compared to the right one. So, if one pushes up on the right one(like a left hand shooter would do with his left thumb to ensure that the slide stays back) it will go all the way in the corresponding notch while on the other side it will just barely catch and thus creating a very unreliable stop(it is not positively holding the slide back).

But this is not an issue for those that engage the left slide stop(right handed shooters), because in this case they will push up on the lower shoulder until it fully enters the notch and the slide stop has a little elasticity/give that allows both shoulders to firmly enter the corresponding notches.

The same happens if the magazine follower is pushing up the slide stop(the flower engages the slide stop on the left side-so it all comes together).

So, since the slide is OK(measured it with a very precise caliper) I decided that the first time I will detail strip the pistol I could take the slide stop and bend the left shoulder so that it will get 1 mm higher.

Please, if some more experienced users or users that encountered the same issue on this handgun can comment on this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, If you have another idea that might solve this issue please share it with me.

Oh, and by the way, what is the most simple way to take the slide stop lever of the gun so that I can try to work on it?

Edited September 8, 2013 by serghey24

[Canuck223]

People run lighter hammer springs in CZ's and lighter striker springs in Glocks (I've got both and have had no reliability issues with either unless I went *really* light with the springs and tried to shoot the gun without using EITHER Federal primers OR an extended firing pin/striker. With lighter springs - but not the extremely light ones - I get about a 5.5#DA/2#SA pull with the CZ's and about a 3# pull with the Glocks with ZERO reliability issues...and I use Tula primers more often than not.) What's so different about this gun that a lighter hammer spring would render the gun an unreliable mess? Why would anyone want a 10#DA pull when they might could have it at 5#?

Absolutely nothing.

[Canuck223]

K100 frame disassembly.

Removing the frame insert.

1. Prove gun safe, and field strip as normal.
2. If using the largest grip with the long backstrap, remove it.
3. Press out the slide stop pin and the rear frame roll pin.
4. Rotate the safety lever up, and lift the rear of the frame insert up a little.
5. Get your finger nails under the plastic lever and pull sideways slightly as you rotate the safety. The plastic cap will come off the safety cylinder. You can press the cylinder and the remaining attached cap through to the other side.
6. Lift out the frame insert.
7. Observe the small spring under the insert. It presses the slide stop down and just rests in the hole.
8. Now you can lift the slide stop off the frame.

Oh, and by the way, what is the most simple way to take the slide stop lever of the gun so that I can try to work on it

[serghey24]

@Canuck223:

Thank you a lot for the information. The procedure seem a bit laborious but I think I will manage it when the time comes.

Until then all I have to do is to visit the local flea market to buy some pin punches of the correct size.

[serghey24]

Hy again.

@ Canuck223: I used your advice and detail stripped the gun. It came off quite easily. Took off the slide stop very easily and I think that the issue is solved.

However I noticed that there was substantial amounts of grease on the lower side of the insert(on the part that houses the slide stop spring). To have such generous amounts of grease in that place? Or it is just my gun oil mixed with gunpowder residue(I generously lubed the gun once, by mistake)?

I also would like to ask if, where and how much grease needs to be applied on the trigger bar(back part, upper part, underside, etc.-please advise).

Because, as I took the insert out I noticed that it was covered with some dark colored grease.

In both cases I cleaned the surfaces(sometimes I am not very bright).

But now I think that maybe it was just a graphite grease to ensure smooth trigger bar movement.

Now, I guess that the trigger bar need some lubrication but I would not like to put too much or in the wrong place(I have ever seen this type of hammer/ sear sub assembly so I do not know if and where does it like to be greased).

Also, since in my country, dedicated gun grease is basically non existent I would like to ask what kind of grease needs to be used there: standard grease(think the type used to grease the wheel axles), special grease(silicone grease maybe)? Or some other type of grease?

Could gun oil do the job? Or even motor oil(it is a little thicker) maybe?

How often need this greasing need to be redone to ensure that that fantastic trigger pull is maintained?

[NicVerAZ]

Before there was dedicated oil in the US people used sewing machine oil.

[serghey24]

@NicVerAZ: Thought about it myself. But for the rails/frame fit and barrel pivoting pin area(places normally lubed at field stripping). Already ensured a supply of sewing machine oil.

But for now I have some half filled Balistol containers from a friend that no longer uses it. In my case it works good both as a cleaner and as a gun oil-I do not like it because it comes in a pressurized spray container.

I was asking about grease on the trigger bar because that is what was there originally and I think that perhaps there is a reason.

Especially since grease is more expensive than oil and it was applied relatively generously-those 2 facts need to have a strong reason because they where done by the factory, and all factories are cost conscious, no?).

Also, in my mind grease seem to be more logical in that application(trigger bar-sear area) because:

-it is a relatively hard to get area(requires 2 pins to be taken of so it is not field striping) so the lubing is not done on a regular basis. Some people never detail strip their guns

-it is important that the lubrication remains on place(oil tends to run of or even evaporate over time but grease remains there)

-it is not a particularly dirty area so the grease's ability to attract dirt/lint is not a big issue

So, this is why I ask about the grease: to know how much(my feeling is that the less the better-but how less?) and where to apply it.

I am interested in what type of grease can be used because I guess that it requires to function on a higher temperature than the surroundings(it is after-all inside the pistol's frame in relative vicinity of the firing chamber).

And, also the grease's thickness could influence the trigger feel(to thick and it will harden the trigger, too thin and it will run of in time).

I care a lot about this gun and this is why I would like to maintain it as better as I can with the limited resources I have available so pleases offer your advice on the matter as it will be greatly appreciated.

[Canuck223]

The grease in the slide stop spring hole is there for no other purpose except to keep the spring from falling out during handling at the bench.

I use Castrol Syntec 0W30 to lube the trigger bow where it rides along the frame insert, but you can certainly use grease if you choose. Just be wary of caking.

Grease works well in the area because it has less tendency to creep.

I fall into the "lube early, lube often." camp. The slide rails, cross pin, barrel lugs are oiled and a thin film on the rear bearing surface of the barrel. I just wipe off the excess afterword's. From -15C to 30C it runs like a scalded cat.

[serghey24]

@Canuck223:

"The grease in the slide stop spring hole is there for no other purpose except to keep the spring from falling out during handling at the bench."

Ha-ha-ha. I must admit that it is exactly what crossed my mind. Discarded the thought because it would have made more sense in my mind(it would have been cheaper on the long run) to design a spring with a little conicity-almost cylindrical(the base of the conical spring fitted inside the whole in the insert) or even better a cylindrical sprig that has the last coil bent outwards a little-just to catch a little on the walls of that hole in the insert.

-If Mr. Jaroslav decides to use this idea I will become very rich if he sends me 50% of the money he will save on grease .

Well, your choice in oil makes sense you being located in Canada. In my more continental-temperate climate(very dusty/dirty/muddy in the late years) I guess that a 10W40 will work just fine for the barrel, slide cross pins.

The grease for the insert I decided that a lithium base moly grease(nr. 2 thickness preferably) will be the best choice for me since it is rare in my area and therefore more susceptible of being of good quality. The reason for deciding on grease is simply because, as you stated, it will remain in place longer.

Well, anyway, I thank you again for the information.

Edited October 7, 2013 by serghey24