How to do a fast Reload?

[AznDragon533]

I have a question concerning how to do a fast reload

example video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1c9eWpaG8E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU3jceN4JAc

When you shoot the last shot...the slide rack back....then take magazine and insert in well...

my question is...when are you supposed to use your slide stop? with which hand and finger? Is it possible/safe to pull the trigger while slide is racking forward?

thanks

Edited May 19, 2012 by AznDragon533

[PKT1106]

Looks like you use your strong hand thumb to pull the slide stop right after the magazine is set or your support thumb when you regrip.

I would not try to rack the slide and pull the trigger at the same time. Bad things can happen.

Edited May 19, 2012 by PKT1106

[Sin-ster]

I'd lay 10:1 that Sevigny doesn't touch the slide stop during that reload, but that his gun is autoforwarding instead when he seats the mag. If he is using it, it's with his thumb at probably the exact instant the mag is fully seated; by then, his support hand is re-establishing a proper grip and the muzzle is driving back towards the target.

As for the finger on the trigger at all during the reload-- NO. The last few inches of your presentation after the gun has returned to battery is when you can make contact with the trigger face and start to take up the slack-- but if you're asking this question, I strongly suggest you don't try that, either, and just wait for the gun to be fully on target before you worry about breaking the shot.

The real answer to your question of "how do you perform a fast reload" is simple: lots and lots and lots more practice.

[AznDragon533]

What do you mean the gun is "autoforwarding" how would that even be possible, he has to use the slide stop to rack it forward....am i missing something here?

[Sin-ster]

What do you mean the gun is "autoforwarding" how would that even be possible, he has to use the slide stop to rack it forward....am i missing something here?

M&Ps do it the easiest; Glocks are a close second. I've seen HK's that are fairly consistent, but you don't hear about it as often as with the two aforementioned brands.

If you seat the mag hard enough and at the proper angle, the slide autoforwards. Yes, it's possible-- in fact, both of my 9 Pro's (that have been shot) do it 100% of the time to date. After "learning" it on that platform, I now do it 95% of the time on my Glocks as well.

Some folks claim it's all about the perfect angle; others claim that you need to wear the parts a certain way, typically by ONLY using the slide stop to strip a round off of a new magazine.

I don't worry about the angle, and NEVER use the slide stop for anything but locking the gun open. I mean ever. (I don't shoot IDPA, though...) And every last one of my guns of those two brands will do it consistently enough for me to rely upon it-- 100% of the time with the M&P, unless the reload itself is completely flubbed. In which case, you know it's not going to autoforward so you can go from there.

I can't say whether or not Dave has trained specifically to make it happen, or what-- but I can almost bet, seeing as how common and easy it is, that his gun autoforwards in that video. He *may* be indexing the button anyway, just in case-- that'd be the smart thing to do. But his Glock might be as consistent with it as my M&Ps, so... who knows.

[Corey]

Instead of relying on most will consider a minor malfunction of a gun part (the gun auto closing by itself when a mag is seated) why not learn to hit the slide stop with your weakhand thumb after you seat the mag. If you get to the point that you rely on the slide to "Auto close" when you reload, sooner or later it won't do it and you'll lose a ton of time.

[Skydiver]

Off topic: In USPSA and IPSC you will get DQ'd for reloading with a finger in the trigger guard -- most RO's will consider racking the slide as part of the reloading process. Although some people occasionally get away with reloading with a finger in the trigger guard here in the US, I've heard it recounted enough times to believe folks when they say that the IPSC RO's in Canada are particularly watchful for this safety violation. I don't play the IDPA games, but I've also heard IDPA SO's are more lenient about this.

Back on topic: Take time to do a lot of practice with an unloaded gun and empty magazines. A friend off mine used to have a laundry basket with some towels in front of him, and he would watch La Femme Nikita and practice dry firing and reloading. Letting the mags drop into the laundry basket makes retrieving them much easier. His reload even with a single stack gun are crazy fast and he doesn't even "look" the magazine into the magwell anymore. His kinesthesia has been honed that well for reloading.

[DonovanM]

And I would bet 10:1 that Sevigny was using his slide stop. Sweeping it between when the weak hand seats the magazine and reforms its firing grip is just as fast as a speed reload, and a hell of a lot more reliable than trusting your gun to autoforward.

Here are a few more, just for food for thought...

Edited May 19, 2012 by DonovanM

[Sin-ster]

I actually reconsidered my stance before reading this.

I'd still bet 10:1 that it's autoforwarding, but I'm with you both that he's probably hitting the slide stop in the process. IOW, he's probably not relying on it-- but it's doing it anyway.

Someone call him and ask.

[Sin-ster]

Sweeping it between when the weak hand seats the magazine and reforms its firing grip is just as fast as a speed reload, and a hell of a lot more reliable than trusting your gun to autoforward.

I'm going to (super-humbly) contend with the first part of that statement; the second one is a billion times true.

It's only a partial contention, now that I think about it-- if as a shooter, you are only limited by the speed at which you can get the gun back up for the next shot, you would be correct, provided that your re-establishing of the grip was faster than the return to index on the target.

I can say without question that my support hand is slowest, and currently the biggest limiting factor in terms of the next shot-- especially as it relates to stabilizing the sights before the next shot breaks. Adding in a pause to sweep the slide stop most definitely exacerbates that problem-- whether it's worth it for the reliability or not.

If someone came out with a part or mod that ensured 100% effective autoforwarding on a gun in slidelock (and the BoD didn't ban it), would you use it or continue to sweep the slide lock?

[Skydiver]

In USPSA, even production shooters avoid shooting to slide lock, so typically it's a non-issue. When production shooters do shoot to slide lock, I think they build it into their plan to hit the slide release lever.

As for IDPA, I do know that most people shoot to slide lock, but then you need to duck behind cover to reload anyway so any speed saving you get seem to be nullified.

[a matt]

I'm left handed so I rest my trigger finger on the slide stop and when the mag is inserted the force it pushes the slide stop down returning it to battery like auto. I have watch Dave, Travis and Max shoot single stack. When they go to slide lock they all go to weak hand thumb to release the slide. 1911's do not auto reset I'm sure the don't count on that in their shooting at all. That is a bad habit to get into sooner or later it is not going to release or you might not shoot a Glock and M&P's forever?

Edited May 21, 2012 by a matt

[Sin-ster]

I'm left handed so I rest my trigger finger on the slide stop and when the mag is inserted the force it pushes the slide stop down returning it to battery like auto. I have watch Dave, Travis and Max shoot single stack. When they go to slide lock they all go to weak hand thumb to release the slide. 1911's do not auto reset I'm sure the don't count on that in their shooting at all. That is a bad habit to get into sooner or later it is not going to release or you might not shoot a Glock and M&P's forever?

Only until I win Nats and Worlds; then I'm switching.

So... maybe forever?

No, yeah-- it's a bad habit that I never considered before. It's never bitten me, and I'm still crappy enough to be in slide lock more often than I'd like. I'm definitely changing my tune to advocate for weak thumb release, even if the gun autoforwards.

But I STILL bet Dave's hitting that reload hard enough to autoforward the Glock in those videos. His thumb almost certainly grazes the slide lock, but it's redundant. Smart-- but redundant.

[ErichF]

I know how to auto-forward my XDm with pretty consistent results, but just in case I sweep the release anyways.

Look at my reloads on the second stage in this video (time 0:50). The first and last one's I got to auto-forward, but the middle reload was done with less intent and had to be released.

Edited May 22, 2012 by ErichF

[theycallmeingot]

as a right handed shooter, if i wanted to, i could hit the slide release with my strong hand thumb before my weak hand is even on the mag yet. I don't reload nearly as fast as dave sevigny, but i have no doubt that he has enough time to hit the release as he's pushing out and/or re-establishing his grip. your thumb is right there, anyway.

EDIT: if you're sweeping the release anyway, your reload is no quicker than if the gun didn't auto forward.

Edited May 22, 2012 by theycallmeingot

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

As for IDPA, I do know that most people shoot to slide lock, but then you need to duck behind cover to reload anyway so any speed saving you get seem to be nullified.

In IDPA, shooters often reach slide-lock while learning out from behind cover -- after putting one round in a target that needs two. So, anything that would speed the reload up and get the gun back on target sooner would help. ("Round dumping" can ensure slide-lock between targets, so the reload overlaps with movement, or at least a transition, and disrupts shooting less. But dumping rounds would be wrong, mkay?)

[rwilson37643]

Assuming Mr. Sevigney shoots the way he teaches, he is using the slide release.He teaches that after the strong hand thumb presses the mag release, it goes immediately to the slide release and rests there until the mag is slammed home. when this happens the strong hand naturally tightens, depressing the slide release on the way to a firing grip. after seating the mag the weak hand maintains contact with the grip and closes in a firing grip.

Man that is difficult to explain in print.

[TMC]

and NEVER use the slide stop for anything but locking the gun open. I mean ever.

???

[Braxton1]

I believe that at least 90% of the factors involving a fast reload occur before the slide stop is tripped or it auto-forwards or whatever.

That 90% comes in getting the weak hand off of the gun and onto the new mag ASAP, bringing the gun back to a consistent place high and close in, and "looking" the magazine into the magwell.

I see a lot of people keep their hands together on the gun way too long and the old magazine is on the ground before the new one is even touched. Lots keep the gun too low or too far out and miss the ergonomic advantages of "high and close", and a lot keep their eyes on the target array the entire time instead of watching what they're doing. If they'd look down for a fraction of a second, they wouldn't miss the magwell or hit it at the wrong angle for smooth insertion.

The other 9 percent or more is just extending out to the target, picking up the sights, and quickly prepping the trigger. Extending out and not being ready to shoot because the sights are not right or the trigger isn't prepped is a big time waster.

Maybe one percent of the factors would be in how the slide is released. Obsessing on relatively mundane points of a technique won't make a shooter better until the other 99% is SO good that it doesn't need much improvement.

Just thoughts....

[a matt]

+1

[DonovanM]

Sweeping it between when the weak hand seats the magazine and reforms its firing grip is just as fast as a speed reload, and a hell of a lot more reliable than trusting your gun to autoforward.

I'm going to (super-humbly) contend with the first part of that statement; the second one is a billion times true.

It's only a partial contention, now that I think about it-- if as a shooter, you are only limited by the speed at which you can get the gun back up for the next shot, you would be correct, provided that your re-establishing of the grip was faster than the return to index on the target.

I can say without question that my support hand is slowest, and currently the biggest limiting factor in terms of the next shot-- especially as it relates to stabilizing the sights before the next shot breaks. Adding in a pause to sweep the slide stop most definitely exacerbates that problem-- whether it's worth it for the reliability or not.

If someone came out with a part or mod that ensured 100% effective autoforwarding on a gun in slidelock (and the BoD didn't ban it), would you use it or continue to sweep the slide lock?

Here, I made a video to hopefully show the minimal speed difference between a slide lock reload and a speed reload. There might be a small difference, maybe .05 of a second. Not enough to really matter by any standard, at least IMO.

No, I wouldn't use that part. It would be kind of cool if it was 100% reliable and had a service life similar to stock. But how much would it cost? I'd rather buy ammo. And as the video will attest, it would be for very minimal if any benefit. Just not worth it. I'm weird though, I don't really like putting doohickeys on my guns, I even went so far as to put in the heavier connector and the standard slide stop on my G34.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On47qnk5YeA

[Sin-ster]

and NEVER use the slide stop for anything but locking the gun open. I mean ever.

???

You read that correctly; autoforward or power stroke. Training scars or well trained-- you be the judge.

[Sin-ster]

I believe that at least 90% of the factors involving a fast reload occur before the slide stop is tripped or it auto-forwards or whatever.

That 90% comes in getting the weak hand off of the gun and onto the new mag ASAP, bringing the gun back to a consistent place high and close in, and "looking" the magazine into the magwell.

I see a lot of people keep their hands together on the gun way too long and the old magazine is on the ground before the new one is even touched. Lots keep the gun too low or too far out and miss the ergonomic advantages of "high and close", and a lot keep their eyes on the target array the entire time instead of watching what they're doing. If they'd look down for a fraction of a second, they wouldn't miss the magwell or hit it at the wrong angle for smooth insertion.

The other 9 percent or more is just extending out to the target, picking up the sights, and quickly prepping the trigger. Extending out and not being ready to shoot because the sights are not right or the trigger isn't prepped is a big time waster.

Maybe one percent of the factors would be in how the slide is released. Obsessing on relatively mundane points of a technique won't make a shooter better until the other 99% is SO good that it doesn't need much improvement.

Just thoughts....

Indeed.

Now assume that you are 99% at that 90%.

The remaining 10% becomes 100% of your concern over a quick reload.

Say that ten times fast!

I'm far from perfect in that key area, but I know for a fact that the last 10% of the reload that you're talking about is where my biggest gains can be made. It's mostly in the re-establishing of the grip and the subsequent acquisition/settling of the sights.

[Sin-ster]

Here, I made a video to hopefully show the minimal speed difference between a slide lock reload and a speed reload. There might be a small difference, maybe .05 of a second. Not enough to really matter by any standard, at least IMO.

No, I wouldn't use that part. It would be kind of cool if it was 100% reliable and had a service life similar to stock. But how much would it cost? I'd rather buy ammo. And as the video will attest, it would be for very minimal if any benefit. Just not worth it. I'm weird though, I don't really like putting doohickeys on my guns, I even went so far as to put in the heavier connector and the standard slide stop on my G34.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On47qnk5YeA

You, sir... have some skill.

However... I saw you fumble one of those slide-locks in a Critique video you recently posted...

Not that I don't fumble speed reloads like it's my job! Just asking-- was that thumb sweep a factor (it appears to be the part that messed you up), and would autoforwarding have prevented that?

[DonovanM]

Here, I made a video to hopefully show the minimal speed difference between a slide lock reload and a speed reload. There might be a small difference, maybe .05 of a second. Not enough to really matter by any standard, at least IMO.

No, I wouldn't use that part. It would be kind of cool if it was 100% reliable and had a service life similar to stock. But how much would it cost? I'd rather buy ammo. And as the video will attest, it would be for very minimal if any benefit. Just not worth it. I'm weird though, I don't really like putting doohickeys on my guns, I even went so far as to put in the heavier connector and the standard slide stop on my G34.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On47qnk5YeA

You, sir... have some skill.

However... I saw you fumble one of those slide-locks in a Critique video you recently posted...

Not that I don't fumble speed reloads like it's my job! Just asking-- was that thumb sweep a factor (it appears to be the part that messed you up), and would autoforwarding have prevented that?

Thanks. Yeah you're absolutely right, I bungled that one about as hard as it could be bungled (and the next one!). And a gun that would 100% autoforward would have completely precluded that from ever happening, AND taken away a couple of the 6 or so seconds I lost that stage by.

This is a software problem for me though. I'm horribly inconsistent at pretty much everything and it would be wrong, IMO, for me to pursue a hardware fix for it. The better I learn to be consistent at one thing, without mechanical aids, the better off I'll be learning to be consistent at things that can't be improved through equipment. I think pursuing hardware solutions to software problems makes us overall weaker shooters.

Now, if I ever find myself in a legitimate hunt for a national title, I think that would be the time to start doing things like running a lighter trigger, and adopting this theoretical 100% autoforward doohickey. At the level I'm at right now though, I think it would just compromise my ability to learn.