First Load w Dillion 650

[Trident]

Just took delivery Thursday of my new Dillion 650 from Brian.

Thanks to everyone here my first loads went pretty well. I think the only problem I had was a few primers that wouldn't seat and one that went off when I gave it a little extra trying to get it to seat.

I went to the range today to test the first rounds that I made and the photos below show the results at 25 yards standing.

9mm MG 124g CMJ over 4.1 VV320 @ 1.145 - 1.150 w/.376 crimp, Fed primers in Sig P226 Tac Ops.

Everything went fine. The slide didn't stay back a few times but it may have been my thumb dragging the lever.

The body shots are at the target number #7. For the most part pretty stoked. Going to load a few more and bench rest to see how tight I can get them and chrono. Time to start testing different OAL and see what I get.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Trident

[blueeyedme]

That's a pretty hot load w/4.1 being at or over the published Max Load for 124s depending on the profile. I would be very careful playing with OAL without working up a load.

[Sarge]

That's a pretty hot load w/4.1 being at or over the published Max Load for 124s depending on the profile. I would be very careful playing with OAL without working up a load.

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

[Trident]

That's a pretty hot load w/4.1 being at or over the published Max Load for 124s depending on the profile. I would be very careful playing with OAL without working up a load.

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

I'm was wanting to shoot 5 shot groups to get an idea of accuracy and at 25 yards felt that the distance was adaquate to do so.

Without knowing the PF it felt pretty low, nice to shoot, low recoil, no smoke, just really nice for the first time shooting reloads. I guess I need to get a chrono and then figure the best way to start testing loads for this gun in 124g CMJ and JHP. I have a case of MG 124 JHP and 147 on the way. Also w231, WST, TG, and Solo 1000. So far love the N320.

Anyone recommend a good chrono?

[acekc]

Anyone recommend a good chrono?

I have the ProChrono Digital and like it quite a bit. So long as the battery is in good shape it's pretty reliable in terms of picking up shots. If you shoot inside a lot there's an optional infrared kit, and if you have a Windows laptop there's a kit to connect the chrono to your laptop via USB to control it, download shot strings and save them to disk, etc.

[TCBDoubleTap]

Anyone recommend a good chrono?

I have the ProChrono Digital and like it quite a bit.

I just picked up a ProChrono Digital - they're on sale this month at MidwayUSA.

Tom

[blueeyedme]

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

Not according to VihtaVouri. Their published load data is here. In 3 of 5 124 profiles 4.1gr of N320 is at or above max load. In the other 2 the max load is 4.2 & 4.3. Maybe the MG is one of them - I don't load MGs so not sure of their profile but it warrants taking a very close look when at or near the published max load...especially for someone new to our hobby who does not have a chrono to work up loads. YMMV.

Edited May 14, 2012 by blueeyedme

[New4John]

That's a pretty hot load w/4.1 being at or over the published Max Load for 124s depending on the profile. I would be very careful playing with OAL without working up a load.

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

Totally agree. I'm running 4.3 @130 in my M&P and have chrono'd it in a G34 w/ and w/out KKM barrel.

MGs tend to need an extra 0.1 - 0.3 depending on powder, but 4.1 is still not even close to a hot load IMO.

[blueeyedme]

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

Totally agree. I'm running 4.3 @130 in my M&P and have chrono'd it in a G34 w/ and w/out KKM barrel.

MGs tend to need an extra 0.1 - 0.3 depending on powder, but 4.1 is still not even close to a hot load IMO.

Help me understand this.....are you guys seriously advising a new reloader who doesn't own a chrono that it's OK to load above the published max load without having worked up to that load in his gun? I'm sure you mean well in the sharing of information but if a recipe you are using is over the published max it at least needs a disclaimer....but hey, it's not my gun, my hand or my face so I'm not going to worry about it, but the OP might want to. Respectfully, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Edited May 14, 2012 by blueeyedme

[mizer67]

4.1 gr N320 won't even make PF in my gun at VV's OAL of 1.142".

4.4 gr starts to show pressure signs, however, with 124 gr MG CMJs or JHPs.

[Red Ryder]

That's a pretty hot load w/4.1 being at or over the published Max Load for 124s depending on the profile. I would be very careful playing with OAL without working up a load.

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

I will second that Sarge. I just opened up a new 4lb jug of N320 and re-worked up a load for my Glock 17. 4.3 Grains of N320 aol of 1.135 with MG 124 grain CMJs. Power Factor of 131ish. No pressure issues. FC Brass and Winchester SPP. 4.1 seems low,,,but that's why it is necessary to re-work up your load with different lot #s of powder. A Chrono is a necessity to the reloader, not an optional piece of equipment. Pro chrono Digital!

Edited May 15, 2012 by Red Ryder

[Youngeyes]

Hot load or not, let's all take a moment to remember that great feeling of shooting the FIRST reloads. Nice job Trident. Good shooting.

[Trident]

Just ordered a Pro chrono Digital from Midway on sale. So.... was there a conscious if 4.1 VVN320 loaded at 1.35 - 1.45 was hot or not?

I took a look at VV website and the load chart as well. So which is right?

[New4John]

I'm not disagreeing and I never said anything about not using a chrono.

OP already stated he was looking for one, he's asking questions and doing his homework, obviously trying to be safe and prudent.

I merely shared my load data and thoughts.

[Trident]

Chrono arrived today..... lets see what I get tomorrow and I'll let you know.

[Trident]

Shot several 10 round groups through the new chrono with different OAL all using 124g MG CMJ over 4.1 N320 today from Sig P226 and got the following results.

1.125 - 1.130 = 1039 / 128PF

1.135 - 1.140 = 1032 / 128PF

1.140 - 1.145 = 1037 / 128PF

1.145 - 1.140 = 1016 / 125PF

1.145 - 1.150 = 1030 / 127PF

I would like to get the PF up to 130. What would you suggest?

[MstngLX50]

I would like to get the PF up to 130. What would you suggest?

Load 10 at 4.2,4.3, and 4.4, 4.3 or 4.4 should get you there. Just keep an eye on the primers for signs of pressure.

For what it's worth my load is 4.4 in a CZ with no pressure signs.

MG 124CMJ

4.4 VV N320

OAL 1.148

Avg. Vel 1055fps

PF 130.8

[Trident]

I would like to get the PF up to 130. What would you suggest?

Load 10 at 4.2,4.3, and 4.4, 4.3 or 4.4 should get you there. Just keep an eye on the primers for signs of pressure.

For what it's worth my load is 4.4 in a CZ with no pressure signs.

MG 124CMJ

4.4 VV N320

OAL 1.148

Avg. Vel 1055fps

PF 130.8

I turned up the powder 1/4 turn to 4.2g

I made 20, MG 124 CMJ over 4.2g VV N320 @1.150 and avg 1071=132PF.

So, I'll go back the other way a tad.

[mizer67]

That sounds like a big jump for just .1 gr.

Are you sure you're throwing 4.2 gr?

Did you take the avg. of 10 charges, or just one?

[Trident]

That sounds like a big jump for just .1 gr.

Are you sure you're throwing 4.2 gr?

Did you take the avg. of 10 charges, or just one?

Both, but I'll check again.

[Sarge]

No where near a hot load. I load 4.4 with MG CMJ's @1.13 for a 133 PF out of an M&P Pro. 4.2 out of a G34 same oal.

4.1 is pretty low for 124's actually.

Not according to VihtaVouri. Their published load data is here. In 3 of 5 124 profiles 4.1gr of N320 is at or above max load. In the other 2 the max load is 4.2 & 4.3. Maybe the MG is one of them - I don't load MGs so not sure of their profile but it warrants taking a very close look when at or near the published max load...especially for someone new to our hobby who does not have a chrono to work up loads. YMMV.

8,0124FMJ/FPHornady29,01.142N3200,253.931010170,284.33341096

The lower loads seem to be for plated i.e Rainers. Plated mirrors lead recipes which are typically lower than FMJ's.

I suggest all the manufactures load data is very conservative for liability purposes. I also actually think it is foolish to reload without a chrono. There is just no way of guessing when it comes to feel in regards to PF.

Per the chart above even a 124 traveling at 1096 is only a 133 PF load. It's not really a mouse fart load but it is nowhere near hot. There are some defense loads in +P+ categories that come close to making major.

New reloaders do need to use due caution and do a ton of homework to be safe. But even after all of this I have found 4.1 of N320 to not be enough to give a comfortable margin in PF for competition in MY guns.

[Sarge]

I would like to get the PF up to 130. What would you suggest?

Load 10 at 4.2,4.3, and 4.4, 4.3 or 4.4 should get you there. Just keep an eye on the primers for signs of pressure.

For what it's worth my load is 4.4 in a CZ with no pressure signs.

MG 124CMJ

4.4 VV N320

OAL 1.148

Avg. Vel 1055fps

PF 130.8

I turned up the powder 1/4 turn to 4.2g

I made 20, MG 124 CMJ over 4.2g VV N320 @1.150 and avg 1071=132PF.

So, I'll go back the other way a tad.

Not so fast! This is where the fun begins in load development. The softest load is not always the most accurate load, the most reliable load, or the load that brings the sights back on target the fastest. For true load development you need to find the loads that give you the margin you want in PF. Then you need to shoot some groups to check poa vs. poi. You need to make sure they group tight enough for your needs. Then you need to do the most important test and that is to run some Bill Frills or something along that line where you are doing rapid follow up shots and see how your pairs are coming out on paper. It is quite normal for a nice soft shooting 130 PF load to throw a horrible group tht prints left or right or high or low, etc... whereas a 135 load may be dead center and provide better timing of the gun for rapid followups.

And FWIW I don't think 20 of anything is enough once you start the procedure I talked about. I don't take anything less than 100 of each load to the range to do teating once I am convinced they are in the PF range I need.

[Trident]

I would like to get the PF up to 130. What would you suggest?

Load 10 at 4.2,4.3, and 4.4, 4.3 or 4.4 should get you there. Just keep an eye on the primers for signs of pressure.

For what it's worth my load is 4.4 in a CZ with no pressure signs.

MG 124CMJ

4.4 VV N320

OAL 1.148

Avg. Vel 1055fps

PF 130.8

I turned up the powder 1/4 turn to 4.2g

I made 20, MG 124 CMJ over 4.2g VV N320 @1.150 and avg 1071=132PF.

So, I'll go back the other way a tad.

Not so fast! This is where the fun begins in load development. The softest load is not always the most accurate load, the most reliable load, or the load that brings the sights back on target the fastest. For true load development you need to find the loads that give you the margin you want in PF. Then you need to shoot some groups to check poa vs. poi. You need to make sure they group tight enough for your needs. Then you need to do the most important test and that is to run some Bill Frills or something along that line where you are doing rapid follow up shots and see how your pairs are coming out on paper. It is quite normal for a nice soft shooting 130 PF load to throw a horrible group tht prints left or right or high or low, etc... whereas a 135 load may be dead center and provide better timing of the gun for rapid followups.

And FWIW I don't think 20 of anything is enough once you start the procedure I talked about. I don't take anything less than 100 of each load to the range to do teating once I am convinced they are in the PF range I need.

That increase seemed a bit large to me going from 4.1 to 4.2 so I went back and measured using the 10/10 method and it was really 4.3+ so I turned it down to 4.2 using the 10/10 method and I will do another chrono test to see exactly where the PF is. When I measured one at a time it would due 4.0-4.1 ect....