Which gun is the fastest; rifle, pistol, shotgun?

[Nuke8401]

When you are given the choice of which weapon to use, what does your choice depend on?

For stages where the weapon choice is up to the shooter, besides prohibited targets such as no steel with a rifle closer than 100 yards, and you must use all three, how do you decide?

I was practicing weapon transitions on a plate rack at about 17 yds. Rifle (22 conversion) was easily the fastest, maybe 3-4 second runs from a table start. Shotgun next, maybe 5-6 second? Pistol last, maybe 6-8? I could be wrong about the times as I didn't write them down.

So it seems that I would always choose the rifle when given the choice, except for flying targets.

I heard the first FNH pro match was designed this way and I think the BRM3G is also.

I think the only time my pistol would win over the rifle would be at very short distances, maybe 10 ft?

Is there a strategy?

Thanks,

David E.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Nuke8401

[CocoBolo]

Sounds like a good plan for you. Since I shoot an Open pistol and I've got 29 rounds on an unloaded start the option could be different for me, if the difficulty of the shots doesn't rule it out in favor of the rifle, I shoot well on the move and if the targets are open it might just be faster for me with the handgun. I don't think you can apply a rule across the board, it depends on the layout, the movement positioning reloads etc. But I am with you on the idea and would probably dry run that senario first then a combo pistol/rifle. Shot gun can be very fast till you have to reload. I've double shot fun 2-guns and 3-guns with all pistol before, beat my own times using all pistol and even beat the other 40 shooters, so it depends. The pistol was way faster, and it ate a bunch of added time but in the end it took the match. (25 yards and <)

If you haven't done it already figure out how to do your dry runs in a way that you can get an accurate time. David Rea uses his I phone, holds it in his hand does his dry run using the I-phone as a stop watch, and he does it different ways to find the best. It is amazing his run time will be within .1 of his dry run time. A plain stop watch will work as well but you have to simulate the shooting time accurately.

I recently shot an IDPA 3-Gun where you can't air gun etc, so I just did a visualization of me air gunning. It helped me run the stages without getting into cover issues etc, cause I don't shoot that game, I just wanted to test my shot gun under match conditions, since it puked farted and fell at the TX Multigun.

[Nuke8401]

Ron,

Thanks, more to it than it first appears.

I guess for a more experiecned shooter the dry-run timer idea can be a big help.

I think my next step is to figure out at what distance the rifle overtakes the pistol for a all "A"s on paper and then see if it's different for 2 hits anywhere.

Yes, I shoot tactical but use a 9mm with 140mm mags so 23 rds at the start.

So from what you are saying, I either s&*k with pistol or an open gun/dot makes a big difference. I've never shot open.

Thanks,

David

[AlamoShooter]

David -That question is what makes the game good- Its good that you have found at least one match that will let you pick.

Knowing your Strong points and what works best is part of the learning foundation that makes a good shooter. You would be surprised at how many shooters that score high do not know the answer for them selfs.

This is a personal thing that depends on the shooter. I may pick a hand-gun over a rifle on more times than other shooters, but that does not make my pick the best for the next guy.

Train Hard, find a weakness and eliminate it. Know your self and how well you shoot each gun before 8am in the morning or after 6pm and a long day. Know your self and you have already won the most important part of the game.

One plate rack at 15 yards ?? But two plate rack at 15 yards Can you maintain the gap in time with your reloads on the shotgun? At 15 yards its an even race for me with two racks. But past 15 I go shotgun inside I go handgun , But ..BUT! that depends on time of day and how tired my eyes are.

Keep in mind I am not a top shooter, I just train harder and have more experience than 75% of the pack.

Edited May 5, 2012 by AlamoShooter

[kurtm]

If by "rifle" you mean a AR then YES rifle in general will be faster. If by rifle you mean...well.....a RIFLE then in general a handgun will be faster.

[Alaskapopo]

It also depends on the shooters skill level. I have tested various levels of shooters on close range drills with rifles and pistols. Under A class it seems most people are faster with the rifle. However when you get to A class or higher it starts to go the other way. Me I am still much faster with the rifle.

Pat

[Lead-Head]

I really like these either/or type of stages. They can add some variety to an otherwise plain stage. I find rifle trumps everything else for speed (close or far), but generally there are going to be some clays, or clse steel that must be shotgun/pistol. Location of staged guns, and dump barrels can factor into the decsion of what to use. Distance between target arrays and the option of loading on the move also plays a part.

Seem to see more and more of these type of stages, particulary with 5 inch plates being shotgun/pistol. FNH last year had some slug/pistol poppers.

Generally if it can be shot with the rifle, that is what I use. If plates are shotgun/pistol, I empty my scattergun, get it out of my hands as quickly as possible, and draw my pistol. Loading a shotgun for me is not worth the time since the sum of the difference in splits between my shotgun and handgun will likely be less time than loading my shotgun.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Lead-Head

[AlamoShooter]

If by "rifle" you mean a AR then YES rifle in general will be faster. If by rifle you mean...well.....a RIFLE then in general a handgun will be faster.

OH yes I see , I thought he ment Rifle when he said Rifle, but if.......

I bet for 95% a rifle would be more consistent and faster.

Some of us are just slow on a rifle trigger and even slower on a Rifle trigger

[Bryan 45]

When it's a choice between pistol and rifle, I choose rifle because I enjoy shooting it more than a pistol!

[NSiess]

I would really like to see more matches where you can choose the gun you engage targets with. 2011 fnh had some of this and I hope to see more of it in the future. The ability to play to your strengths and weaknesses can be a really interesting part of shooting. Freestyle all the way!

[Dan Sierpina]

While I simply do not have the depth of experience of Kurt, the "optional" stages seem to be more geared of chosing pistol and shotgun, rifle wasn't a good option. Blue Ridge had a stage that for me, was better with pistol, Rocky Mountain, had a stage that was better for shotgun. You have to look at the individual stage, your equipment and your ability with said equipment, and decide on the spot.

[Nuke8401]

While I simply do not have the depth of experience of Kurt, the "optional" stages seem to be more geared of chosing pistol and shotgun, rifle wasn't a good option. Blue Ridge had a stage that for me, was better with pistol, Rocky Mountain, had a stage that was better for shotgun. You have to look at the individual stage, your equipment and your ability with said equipment, and decide on the spot.

Thanks all, Dan

So with my pistol skills, I will most likely be running the shotgun dry first at preferably the longer steel then going to the pistol.

.

.

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Or maybe with my recent pistol performance maybe reloading the shotgun might be an option.

David E.

[Dan Sierpina]

Thanks all, Dan

So with my pistol skills, I will most likely be running the shotgun dry first at preferably the longer steel then going to the pistol.

.

.

.

Or maybe with my recent pistol performance maybe reloading the shotgun might be an option.

David E.

David,

It becomes a balancing act, sort of. At Blue Ridge, the stage had a lot of steel plates, not real far. I could reload the pistol faster than the shotgun, so, I used the pistol. At Rocky Mountain, there was a Texas Star, I could take the star easier with the shotgun, as there were clays in the same area.

[gose]

Also depends on the division you shoot.

In TO I would generally pick pistol over shotgun and rifle over pistol. Now after I switched to Open, shotgun is more viable against pistol and pistol more viable against rifle...

In the end it all comes down to how the individual stage looks though.

[Alaskapopo]

I ran a test for run today on steel MGM auto poppers at 10 yards. I had 3 of the 6 inch Colt speed plate style auto poppers and 3 of the standard popper style ones. My fastest time with my R&R saiga was 4.60, my fastest with my open pistol was 5.15 and my fastest with my .22 Spikes AR style rifle was 4.04. The .22 is about the same speed for me normally on other close in drills as my 5.56 gun so the data should be valid for the .22 here. I was mainly just practicing and testing my R&R with a new 20 round mag I got and it functioned flawlessly.

Pat

[Nuke8401]

Pat,

Were those all low ready starts? Table or pistol holstered?

David

[Dan Sierpina]

Pat,

Were those all low ready starts? Table or pistol holstered?

David

David,

Where I encountered the "options" were in the middle of the stage, not the beginning. Stage designers can be evil.

[Alaskapopo]

Pat,

Were those all low ready starts? Table or pistol holstered?

David

Good point. Holstered starts with the pistol and low ready with the shotgun and rifle. Forgot about that. I need to do it from low ready today.

Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Went out again today with my 22 pistol with a red dot and my .22 carbine again. Shot at 10 yards and 25 yards. From the low ready at 25 my best rifle times were 3.38 and my best pistol time was 4.00 flat from the low ready. I actually got faster at 25 because I had been practicing a bunch went through 750 .22 lr shells.

Pat