jester121 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 After a disappointing weekend of speedloader fumbles and brass hanging in the cylinder after ejection, I'm prepared to invest a few dollars in running moon clips. TK Custom does cylinder milling for my GP100 for a reasonable price, and if I'm going to stick with this enjoyable (yet occasionally infuriating ) division, I might as well do it right. I've been using Safariland Comp II speedloaders with their appropriate 3x pouches, and they work great -- except when I screw up and pry a couple rounds out on the ground while reaching back from my belt, or any of several other ways I've found to embarrass myself. Of course it also makes it much easier to pick up my empties now that I'm reloading. So.... What is the current thinking on the best option for moon clip "pouches" or hangers or whatever you call them, legal for USPSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 One of the most popular is the North Mountain (4wheelguns.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp100man Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Jester, I also have a couple of GP100's. They are fine guns, solid as a tank and tack drivers. But I don't think that I would sink money into getting the cylinders machined and running moonclips for USPSA. You will most likely be shooting minor, unless you are shooting .357 magnum. And that is quite a kick. Loading a cylinder with .357 moonclips will be a lot harder than with a short, fat .45. If you want to run the GP100, just practice with your speedloaders. Get the variant or safariland comp3. Keep the muzzle vertical when hitting the ejector rod. That is key - VERTICAL. Having the gun tilted when hitting the ejector rod is how you get cases stuck under the star. I can reload my 38/357 almost as fast as my moonclip guns. Sure I have a fubar every once in a while, but not often enough to worry about it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I also use the North Mountain. I like them the best. Another is from SpeedBeez that works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Jester, I also have a couple of GP100's. They are fine guns, solid as a tank and tack drivers. But I don't think that I would sink money into getting the cylinders machined and running moonclips for USPSA. You will most likely be shooting minor, unless you are shooting .357 magnum. And that is quite a kick. Loading a cylinder with .357 moonclips will be a lot harder than with a short, fat .45. If you want to run the GP100, just practice with your speedloaders. Get the variant or safariland comp3. Keep the muzzle vertical when hitting the ejector rod. That is key - VERTICAL. Having the gun tilted when hitting the ejector rod is how you get cases stuck under the star. I can reload my 38/357 almost as fast as my moonclip guns. Sure I have a fubar every once in a while, but not often enough to worry about it. Steve I am loading my own .357 ammo right now to make major, a soft-shooting 180 gr (have some 200s to try too) load that should be trundling along around 1000 fps based on the book data (nowhere around here to chrono that I've found yet). Recoil is very manageable, no more than a +P .38s. If I had to guess the vertical thing is probably what I'm missing, I bet I'm closer to a 30 degree angle on both the Z and Y axis, so maybe that's why I'm running into problems? I ran a bore snake through the cylinder mid-match just in case but the chambers looked pretty decent after 100 rounds or so, no crud except at the very end closest to the barrel. I'm sure I got sloppy in my practice routing since I'm using a mixture of snap caps and some dummy rounds (spent primer brass onto which I seated and crimped a bullet). Those are heavy enough that with a clean gun they fly out onto the floor as soon as I open the cylinder. I'm also trying to avoid spending a boatload of money on an S&W in .45, along with all the accouterments that go along with that dark path. It's on my gun purchase To Do list but it's not at the top. I'll do some more considering and check out the North Mountain if I decide to go that route. Does each post get 2 moonclips worth of cartridges stacked on it? Is it a hassle digging the second one out or does it push up to the top? For the money that spring loaded Austin belt doesn't seem like a terrible option, even if it's a bit geeky looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 on the North Mountain holders yes you stack 2 moons on top of each other and no it is not a problem to get to the lower one I sometimes get to one of the bottom ones before I get all the top ones I just reach down and pick up whatever one I get first. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedodge Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 +1 north mountain is the way to go easy use simple design that just plain works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I have a neuropathy in my hands and have difficulty feeling much of anything but it's like bikerburgess said, whatever comes to hand is easy even for me. I use 1 rig for both my 625 and 627. Works like a charm. The North Mountain is an elegant design that stands up to hard use. You won't be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian B Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Jester, you have the right gun but the wrong caliber. Please also consider how fast you can load and eject ammo the length of 38sp/357 compared to the shorter 40s&w or 45apc? My experience is twice as slow and twice as challenging. My wife enjoys her moonclips in her PC S&W627 8 round revolver. I compete in USPSA/IPSC Revolver class with the 10mm S&W610 using 40cal making MPF with 180 grain FMJ on Hearthco moonclips mounted on a Seed E Rack clip holder. The speed of reloading your revolver is essential to being competitive, moonclips help a lot. The shorter ammo just pop in and out without hanging but it is easy to see the slow slide the long 38sp/357 brass needs to take just to get seated. I also compete in PPC using a Ruger security six charging with safariland loaders therefore I know your issues well. I do not believe putting moonclips on a 38sp/357 revolver will be much faster than speedloaders. There is a reason the speedloaders have a spring to push in the rounds: they are too long to simply drop in. My wife has to push her clips in with her thumb...and you will have to also if you take the route you suggest of milling your Ruger for clips. You seem cost sensitive to the 610 or 625 at this time, if so keep your revolver as is: using Safariland level lll speedloaders, keep a small stick on a spring loaded lanyard attached to your belt for those times a shell hangs in the cylinder ( better than a finger nail), polish your cylinders and clean them between stages, (at the safety table) keep your ammo correctly sized and do a good job cleaning and polishing your brass. I practice daily loading clips into my revolver and dry firing, regardless of equipment, practice is the most important advice I can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Another vote for the North Mountain products. I use the NM moon clip holder for my 625s and 627s. Works great retains moon clips when you are running I have never had one fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Jester, you have the right gun but the wrong caliber. Please also consider how fast you can load and eject ammo the length of 38sp/357 compared to the shorter 40s&w or 45apc? My experience is twice as slow and twice as challenging. My wife enjoys her moonclips in her PC S&W627 8 round revolver. I compete in USPSA/IPSC Revolver class with the 10mm S&W610 using 40cal making MPF with 180 grain FMJ on Hearthco moonclips mounted on a Seed E Rack clip holder. The speed of reloading your revolver is essential to being competitive, moonclips help a lot. The shorter ammo just pop in and out without hanging but it is easy to see the slow slide the long 38sp/357 brass needs to take just to get seated. I also compete in PPC using a Ruger security six charging with safariland loaders therefore I know your issues well. I do not believe putting moonclips on a 38sp/357 revolver will be much faster than speedloaders. There is a reason the speedloaders have a spring to push in the rounds: they are too long to simply drop in. My wife has to push her clips in with her thumb...and you will have to also if you take the route you suggest of milling your Ruger for clips. You seem cost sensitive to the 610 or 625 at this time, if so keep your revolver as is: using Safariland level lll speedloaders, keep a small stick on a spring loaded lanyard attached to your belt for those times a shell hangs in the cylinder ( better than a finger nail), polish your cylinders and clean them between stages, (at the safety table) keep your ammo correctly sized and do a good job cleaning and polishing your brass. I practice daily loading clips into my revolver and dry firing, regardless of equipment, practice is the most important advice I can offer. Brian, thanks for the info, I certainly don't have as much knowledge or experience as just about anyone here -- I stumbled into USPSA as a diversion and the revolver division as a lark. I just want to have some fun and, if at all possible, not having people roll their eyes when they see my name on the squad sheet. I'm just trying to understand how the length of the cartridges being ejected makes a difference if you're shoving the rod the entire stroke length (assuming they don't get stuck), which should be a non issue with moonclips. I'm not sure about the Safariland III, but my series II speedloaders don't use springs to shove the cartridges down into the cylinder; the only spring action is so the star in the middle holds the shells in position and the spring releases this tension when it comes in contact with the ejector star. The HKS speedloader I use to top off my gun before the buzzer will easily drop six .357s straight down into the cylinder if I insert them a hair past the crimp line and twist the release knob. I'm not looking for big chamfered wells going down into the chambers so I can drop a moonclip in from a foot above the gun! I'm probably missing something very simple (other than the obvious "go spend $900 on a new gun!" which was covered already)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedodge Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 when they role there eyes when they see your name on the sqaud sheet or say finnaly or about time when youve finshed a stage just do what i do and askyall wana give it a go...........they never say yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Brian, thanks for the info, I certainly don't have as much knowledge or experience as just about anyone here -- I stumbled into USPSA as a diversion and the revolver division as a lark. I just want to have some fun and, if at all possible, not having people roll their eyes when they see my name on the squad sheet. Well, you can start by NOT wearing a kilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whyte Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 North Mountain offers 2 moon clip holders. My 1st.had 3 inch posts,which worked great for my .45acp,but the .38 needed the 3.5 length posts to hold them. So,when you order them, get the 3.5 inch post & use them for .45 or .38's. Get the 4 post unit. They are the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 when they role there eyes when they see your name on the sqaud sheet or say finnaly or about time when youve finshed a stage just do what i do and askyall wana give it a go...........they never say yes It's been a great conversation starter since I've been the only revolver shooter at all of the matches I've attended, but after a few rough stages yesterday I'm sure there was a bit of annoyance. I did take some private glee in some match results I just got from a mini indoor practice match earlier this month that was scored without divisions -- 41st out of 50. Well, you can start by NOT wearing a kilt. And what's wrong with a grewn man wearing a kilt, laddie? I have the MacDonald clan's honor to shoot for! If it ain't Scottish, it's crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 North Mountain offers 2 moon clip holders. My 1st.had 3 inch posts,which worked great for my .45acp,but the .38 needed the 3.5 length posts to hold them. So,when you order them, get the 3.5 inch post & use them for .45 or .38's. Get the 4 post unit. They are the nuts. Thanks Pete, good to know. I'd have probably messed that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian B Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Hi Jester These are what I was talking about: Model COMP III Speedloader Injection-molded Spring-driven to offer the fastest weapon reloading device Large-knob frame offers maximum grip clearance Available in Black only http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=COMP%20III What I mean by friction is that a .40s&w has an overall length of 28.8mm whereas a .357 has an overall of 40mm thus making your ammo 39% longer. You are right when you say a good push on the ejection rod should clear the cylinder. The rod does have more travel when ejecting shorter ammo. Inserting the rounds with the spring loaded safariland comp lll speedloaders is an excellent alternative to the moonclip route. Here is a YouTube vid showing the spring aggressively snaps all the rounds into the cylinder: Ps the half naked guy is not me! Brownells sells them for $20 each and you'll need 7, You'll need 7 speedloader holders at $12 each: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12496/Product/SPEEDLOADER-HOLDER And 3 reloading block trays at $25 each: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12499/Product/SAFARILAND-SPEEDLOADER-LOADING-BLOCKS This is $299 excluding a belt which I assume you have. TK custom will machine your Ruger for $100 http://www.moonclips.com/content/example-machine-cylinder.htm You'll need at least 50 moonclips, consider this is the big money because they are not your standard size, $60 per pack of 10, $300 http://www.tkcustom.com/cart/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=126&cat=%2E38+Special+%26+%2E357+Magnum+%2D+Ruger You'll need a moonclip holder rack, magnetic to hold a variety of moonclips $100 http://www.gsiinternational.com/6-shot-Moonclip-rack_8_4236_8584.html A moonclip loading tool , I've tried them all and this is the best! BMT MOONER $80: http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php Therefor Your route of machining your Ruger will cost $580 excluding tax and shipping. Consider shooting with what you have ( comp ll ?) for a season and delay spending money now building your experience ( and dry fire practice). You may get stuck with the custom made moonclips for the Ruger. Perhapse a S&W 625 used/new buy/trade could save you $ in the long run? You could save big money on moonclips using EZ rimz 15 for $30: http://www.ezmoonclip.com/page_4.htm These are polycarbonate so a better moonclip holder may be this: http://magnumshooterssupply.com/James-Austin-Moon-Clip-Server-JAUSTIN001.htm Jester, you mention being embarassed in front of other shooters as a newbie to USPSA, don't even think about it, we were all there at the beginning and are always glad to have a fresh face to share our sport with. Focus on having fun and not getting DQed. Go slow because slow is fast without mikes. I've been shooting IPSC/USPSA for 15 years in open, production and revolver. Revolver is my most favorite, good shooting! Edited May 1, 2012 by Brian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Could the answer be as simple as shooting 38 short Colt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Short Colts are a great answer. They make reloading the .38 as easy as loading .45s Check out loading data. There is plenty on this site that will group 1 1/2 inch at 25 yards. Some loads will do under and inch at 25. You just have to play with it and be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Hi Jester These are what I was talking about: Model COMP III Speedloader Ah, I've never tried the IIIs, I bought the II speedloaders because I thought the longer handles might be harder to get to because of my gut (which still exceeds the vertical boundary of my belt but is shrinking every week.) You've got quite the shopping cart put together for me, I see! Talk about leading the horse to water... Jester, you mention being embarassed in front of other shooters as a newbie to USPSA, don't even think about it, we were all there at the beginning and are always glad to have a fresh face to share our sport with. Focus on having fun and not getting DQed. Go slow because slow is fast without mikes. I've been shooting IPSC/USPSA for 15 years in open, production and revolver. Revolver is my most favorite, good shooting! I'm sure you're right, I've only shot 5 or 6 matches so far and I was pretty disappointed when everything feel apart this past Sunday. Normal for competitive activities I guess, I went through a rough patch on the skeet field last summer when I couldn't break 17 to save my life. Maybe I'll just sit tight for now and see if an alternative presents itself, never know what may pop up on the classifieds! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Could the answer be as simple as shooting 38 short Colt? Short Colts are a great answer. They make reloading the .38 as easy as loading .45s Check out loading data. There is plenty on this site that will group 1 1/2 inch at 25 yards. Some loads will do under and inch at 25. You just have to play with it and be careful. Don't know a darned thing about 38 short colt, in fact I don't recall ever hearing of it. I'll do some searches and see what I can find out. They function in a 357 revolver? I assume no more than minor PF, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Could the answer be as simple as shooting 38 short Colt? Short Colts are a great answer. They make reloading the .38 as easy as loading .45s Check out loading data. There is plenty on this site that will group 1 1/2 inch at 25 yards. Some loads will do under and inch at 25. You just have to play with it and be careful. Don't know a darned thing about 38 short colt, in fact I don't recall ever hearing of it. I'll do some searches and see what I can find out. They function in a 357 revolver? I assume no more than minor PF, right? Check with the ICORE guys, they use them because they load and extract better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian B Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hi Jester A lot of us have a gut so I wear suspenders as do many of my shooting friends. They are a fashion accessory ....and they do give us access to our clips and loaders. Remember now I'm in excellent shape.... And round is a shape.... Here are some leather suspenders that look good also: http://www.fortwestern.com/3d-mens-tooled-leather-suspenders/p/402337/ Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian B Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hi Jester, .38 short colts may not work well for USPSA/IPSC Diameter. Overall length .38 Short Colt .357 in (9.1 mm) .762 in (19.4 mm) 1.052 in (26.7 mm) Rimmed Barnes 1997, p. 274 .38 Long Colt .357 in (9.1 mm) 1.030 in (26.2 mm) 1.320 in (33.5 mm) Rimmed Barnes 1997, p. 274 .38 Special .357 in (9.1 mm) 1.16 in (29 mm) 1.550 in (39.4 mm) Rimmed Barnes 1997, p. 274 357 Mag. (9.1 mm) (40 mm) 9 mm. (9.93 mm). (29.69 mm) .40 S&W (10 mm). (28.8 mm) The neck and rim diameters of the 38 short colt are not strong enought to maintain 35,000 psi, (were they not originally designed using black powder?) It may be 50% shorter than a 357 magnum and 30% shorter than a 38 sp (and a 9mm para) but there is insuffient volume to accommodate enough powder to make major. Your Ruger can take a powerful beating so your casing most probably will rupture spraying hot gasses out the back side of the cylinder onto your gripping hands with painfull effect. ICORE shooters could use the 38 shot colt and must make a minimum power factor of 120 wheras USPSA/ ISPC has a minimum power factor of 160 for major ( using the same formula). This is 30% more power requirement. The minimum power factor for minor is 125 for USPSA/IPSC, which is great if your shooting 9mm in my lightweight Ruger SR9 ( I'm the reigning Canadian champion in PPC DUTY PISTOL MARSKMAN CLASS and I did it with my 100% reliable SR9 , but I digress ...) The important suggestion here is to shoot major power factor whenever you can; you get more points for the same hits otherwise you'll have to slow down to be more accurate. I also suggest a 6 inch barrel; the Longer sight radius is a big boost to accuracy. My S&W 610 has a 6.5 inch barrel. Keep it simple and reload your strong 357 magnum brass for major and have fun. You can tune it down from 375: 125g bullet x 1,450fps/1,000 = 181 power factor to just above 160 PF. Get real good with the gear you have now then trade up when your ready. Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian B Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) http://www.4wheelguns.com/image/ICORE%20Retro%20speed%20loader%20holder.jpg You may consider this as a holder for your Safariland level lll speedloaders At: http://www.4wheelguns.com/ICORE.html Edited May 7, 2012 by Brian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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