jdknotts1 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Periodically when I'm shooting a stage, I have this total focus and mental awareness about everything. My focus is crystal clear, I see the sights rise with amazing clarity, they fall on the targets perfectly, bang! But the time feels so slow. This past weekend I saw it. During a 3gun stage, I started out with 12 clays and steel, and ran to finish off with 6 MGM skinny sammies with the rifle. While I'm shooting, the sights were perfectly aligned with every target, it was clear, total focus, but felt like I was taking forever to shoot the stage. I finished up and thought, "damn that was slow. I guess at least I took my time on the first stage and didn't screw it up." Time was called and I was 20-30 secs faster than the closest time. A friend was recording for me and I watched the video later at home. It was fast. How did I do this? How do I replicate it? It's very frustrating to me. Usually I can replicate something as soon as I do it once. And I get so frustrated at matches when I can't find it. Sometimes so frustrated I screw the match up and don't even feel like shooting. This feeling or state of mind, shows itself randomly, and then it goes away to hide once again. Help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 If I could bottle those "twice a year runs", I'd sell it!!! I'd call it "Zone Juice". "One bottle of "Zone Juice, and you'll be out shooting the field! Try our satisfaction guaranteed Zone Juice for the paltry sum of $29.95 a bottle. A must-add for your shooting bag!" Zone Juice. That's the answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Over many years, I finally realized, those wonderful zone-moments occur spontaneously "on their own." And they are always accompanied by a complete lack of any sort of trying whatsoever. So all the work - eliminating all forms of trying - must happen before the buzzer. First, and maybe most important, your program for everything you will do and see must be doubt free. Then, you are not going to be in a hurry (trying to shoot fast), and you are not going to be trying to shoot slowly. You will allow what you see to dictate the speed. Keywords for me: doubt-free, and allowing. Another way to say it, you must create favorable conditions for the zone experience to occur. Stick with it - that's the good stuff. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) I shot a 3.10 with one extra shot at a steel match this past weekend. Without that miss my time would have been in the 2's. Either way it was my fastest time yet. It didnt feel fast at all. When the RO read off the time I was surprised because it didnt feel fast, but it obviously was. Edited April 17, 2012 by Babaganoosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) "doubt-free and allowing" turned on a lightbulb. The doubt-free and allowing state happens when I'm either in the groove allowing the gun to shoot or I've completely given up doing well, not caring or doubting. It feels slow but result is the same - smoked stages. Thanks for the keywords! DNH Edited April 17, 2012 by daves_not_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I liken it to throwing discus back in HS for the track team. The best throws are the ones you don't feel because everything fell into place and you just let it fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdknotts1 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 So, are the pros experiencing this phenomena more often or all the time? Is this ultra-focus what gives them the edge to beat everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 So, are the pros experiencing this phenomena more often or all the time? Is this ultra-focus what gives them the edge to beat everyone else? I think it is more or less that they practice so much and practice right. Then, when match time comes, their bodies take over and everything they have trained is ingrained sub-consciously. When they hit the cruise control, their bodies do what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdknotts1 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 If I could bottle those "twice a year runs", I'd sell it!!! I'd call it "Zone Juice". "One bottle of "Zone Juice, and you'll be out shooting the field! Try our satisfaction guaranteed Zone Juice for the paltry sum of $29.95 a bottle. A must-add for your shooting bag!" Zone Juice. That's the answer... I would buy a case of it. Let me know when it goes to market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 O.K. but bear with me... I'm perfecting a new turkey hunting scent right now called, "Hen -in-heat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The best way I have found to enter this zone is to DECIDE to call every shot. You really gotta be honest with yourself about what that means. And, you have to be willing to FORGET you are on the clock because it will feel very SLOW. This feeling is what keeps us out of the zone. It's scary. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Great thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The best way I have found to enter this zone is to DECIDE to call every shot. You really gotta be honest with yourself about what that means. And, you have to be willing to FORGET you are on the clock because it will feel very SLOW. This feeling is what keeps us out of the zone. It's scary. SA Saying that "It's scary" really connects with me! Scared that there isn't that "hurry up" feeling of forcing a faster time. Scared that the SO is thinking in his head "anoter newbie". Scared that everyone is saying "you can go faster than that". Ironic that the fear of going slow is keeping us from gettin in the zone and going faster... It's a little like missing. If you think about trying not to miss you'll miss. If you concentrate on hitting and not be afraid to miss you'll hit. DNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction15 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) I had a similar experience on the first match I ever shot, on the first stage. We had to start with the gun on a table unloaded, sit in a chair facing backwards. Load at the signal, shoot steel once then cardboard twice, some with no-shoots halfway across them, finish on steel. I watched several others do it and then it was my turn - very nervous. At the beep I stood up had my gun in hand, started to insert the magazine...and the wind blew down the targets. Man oh man was my adrenaline jacked up with nowhere to go! I ran to help reset targets just so I could burn off a little. 2nd start and it was like I was standing just behind myself watching everything I did. Turns out I cleaned the stage all A's and about 10 seconds faster than the most experienced folks there. And it scared the crap out of me because I wasn't sure that I was in control. I didn't do as well on the remaining stages and partly because I held back a bit and mostly because I'm a novice. I've shot a total of 4 matches since than and it hasn't happened again. I sometimes wish I could and KNOW that I am being safe in everything I need to do. But I have learned that if I shoot to have fun and the score doesn't matter, then I do much better. Annnddd...I didn't realize this topic is more than a month old. Edited May 13, 2012 by Junction15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Annnddd...I didn't realize this topic is more than a month old. Thanks for your response. I check my content because these threads are meaninful to me. It's those glimmers of the flow that keep me going. It isn't reaching GM, it's reaching for GM that makes it all worthwhile. I think to be able to get back to that state you have to stop trying to do what you're doing. What you're doing is getting in the way so stop it. Sometimes it takes that kind of "upset" to the routine to allow the flow to happen. The targets blowing down looked like it was in that case for you that time. Maybe it will take 4 more matches before you experience it again, maybe 40. Either way I think it's worth it. DNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdknotts1 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I seem to be having this hightened state of awareness more often recently. Seems as though it's happening at least once a match now. Seems like the "carefree" attitude and not overthinking it are key. Doubt also seems to be a huge factor. I was losing my confidence in my pistol (G17) aspect of 3 gun. So I went out and bought a new G35. I don't for a second think the new gun shoots better. I think it was just a confidence issue. Shot CMMG and smoked the pistol only stage. Starting that stage out I said "hey, I'm just going to go slow and make sure I get my hits." Turns out it was 2nd place for the stage in TacOps. And again it felt very slow. And at the Tarheel 3Gun Challenge I experienced it on two different stages, both using all three guns. I figured out my plan early in the walk through. I felt I had a solid plan so I stuck with it. Every few moments I would close my eyes and play it in slow motion in my head. No doubts, no confusion, no fear. Both stages turned out to be top five times for the stages. Again felt very slow, but the video was smoking. -Take away doubt -100% confidence -No fear or worry -Slow is smooth These few have worked for me lately. I think I will take a notebook to a local match this weekend. I will write down how I'm thinking before each stage and compare with my time afterward. Maybe I can come up with something.. If I find the key however, it may just be my little secret... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I seem to be having this hightened state of awareness more often recently. Seems as though it's happening at least once a match now. Seems like the "carefree" attitude and not overthinking it are key. Doubt also seems to be a huge factor. I was losing my confidence in my pistol (G17) aspect of 3 gun. So I went out and bought a new G35. I don't for a second think the new gun shoots better. I think it was just a confidence issue. Shot CMMG and smoked the pistol only stage. Starting that stage out I said "hey, I'm just going to go slow and make sure I get my hits." Turns out it was 2nd place for the stage in TacOps. And again it felt very slow. And at the Tarheel 3Gun Challenge I experienced it on two different stages, both using all three guns. I figured out my plan early in the walk through. I felt I had a solid plan so I stuck with it. Every few moments I would close my eyes and play it in slow motion in my head. No doubts, no confusion, no fear. Both stages turned out to be top five times for the stages. Again felt very slow, but the video was smoking. -Take away doubt -100% confidence -No fear or worry -Slow is smooth These few have worked for me lately. I think I will take a notebook to a local match this weekend. I will write down how I'm thinking before each stage and compare with my time afterward. Maybe I can come up with something.. If I find the key however, it may just be my little secret... If there's a better excuse to get a new gun I haven't heard it! No doubt, fear or worry, slow is smooth with 100% confidence sounds like a good load recipe. The Tarheel 3 Gun shoot looks like a good match. I'm 30 minutes away in Raleigh. I'm putting it on my list. DNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 -Take away doubt -100% confidence -No fear or worry -Slow is smooth Nice work - good stuff! Eliminating all doubt is subtly deep, and HUGE! Don't worry, don't hurry, and everything will be fine. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 As a newb, I suppose I can get away with a newb error of putting the paddles to a necro-post. By trade, I'm a military fighter pilot.. The worst flights I've ever had were where I was being evaluated… a check ride, we call them… And it wasn't because I sucked… it was because when being evaluated, I knew I was being evaluated, and I had an inner monologue running… "oh man… he definitely saw that… that's gonna be a downgrade… good lord I hope that's not a bust…" And in the "fast" business… the time you take to evaluate yourself about the evaluator evaluating means you've screwed up 5 more things… which of course you recognize and the inner monologue increases. The best sorties of my life have been where I've let go… ignored the inner monologue and just "executed"… How does this translate to the shooting world? Well… here's a first-hand experience.. My first competition… steel challenge. I sucked ass….trying to go faster, while knowing I was on the clock… with 13 of my buddies watching… the emotion was high….. and so was my time. My second competition… one month later… steel challenge. Same stages (lucky?)… but this time, I had a buddy with me that was trying to teach his son how to shoot… yes… at a competition. I made a concerted effort to just "let go"… and be deliberate with every movement. My snake eater buddies say "slower is smoother…smoother is faster…" Well… I felt like I was moving slow as molasses! When I left that day… I thought… "well at least I hit the steel on the first try just about every time… but my times are going to be EPIC". By forcing myself to relax and just execute, to give a good demo to my buddy's kid, I turned out a 3rd place overall finish…. which in NO way made sense to me… because inside, I felt that each stage was sooooo slow. So how do we harness the ZEN paradise inside? My thoughts… is to kill the inner monologue. Go only as fast as I can see the front sight.. be calm, steady and true.. don't rush… the targets aren't moving… well… except for that swinger in USPSA… but hey… this is steel challenge.. they aren't moving. The RSO does not exist… the timer does not exist… it's just me and my front sight. Naturally, this is all very easy to say… since about a month ago I shot my first USPSA and did terrible… my buddy that introduced me to USPSA said prior "dude.. just shoot this like you shoot steel challenge, and you'll probably be on the podium." I think I placed 64th. But hey… who said I can take my own advice…? Any great Zen master you've seen in movies is old as hell with a long, white beard… I have about 30 years to get a handle on it. Cheers! FATSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red5_Standing_By Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I was at a qualifier for work and threw a round at 25 yards. I continued to shoot poorly at the 15 and really got inside my own head. Finally, I let go of my ego and remembered that each shot is it's own unique moment in the 'now', a moment of perfect expression that will never occur again. How can what's gone before affect me now? I gave up the desire to get a good score and and just shot in the moment. And I called the shot for the very first time. It was an incredible feeling and I am able to replicate it more and more, although I wouldn't say often. But I'll get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I made a concerted effort to just "let go"… and be deliberate with every movement. So how do we harness the ZEN paradise inside? By doing what you did in the previous sentence, for every stage you shoot, for the rest of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 FATSO Don't underestimate your check pilot's insight. They're looking way deeper than your nerves. I think all of them think "In combat, will I be okay flying with this guy". The rest is not blowing test standards too badly to be unsafe. I had a check pilot in flight school that had the dubious honor to kick me out. It was an eval check ride to see if I should be set back or thrown out. I was honest and he recognized my weakness, I wasn't able to tell left from right, and he passed me. I was only 20 then and I will always remember him. Be safe, have fun, make a lot of noise. Both flying and shooting. You already know how to do it flying, it's the same when you shoot. Make it as easy as it's trying to be. Brian, You mean we actually have to WORK at this ZEN shooting stuff? Like the true reward is from actually WORKING at achieving something? Why can't I just buy a really cool gun get some "secrets" from a DVD and totally rock the field? But seriously... There are times when pursuing a goal I feel completely isolated. Instead of feeling alone the solitude becomes a welcome companion. The rounds I shoot are intimate and I can see the bullet holes appear in the target. Time does not exist. There is a clarity to all existence. This state is the reward I seek even though it is more ephemeral than the flight of the bullet. I know the value is greater than any trophy or check that I have ever known... I also know that the reward is found on the path reaching the goal not the pretty prize at the end. DNH P.S. I arrived in Mesa Arizona driving a 1972 VW van (type IV engine) in 1996. Ended up working for Boeing Helicopter and shooting small bore silhouette at Rio Salado. Perhaps our paths have crossed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Perhaps, DNH. I too experienced the "isolated" state you spoke of. I really enjoyed and embraced it. In a sense it made it all worthwhile. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef J Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) I had this experience for the first time last weekend at our local match. Simple stage... 3 static, a popper hooked to a DT with a bad guy and NT attached, I broke all 9 shots in 6:42, got 2 down for 7:42 score. Here's the crazy part... I SO'd that stage for the day and I started on it so I had already kind of figured I wasn't going to do as well as I would if I was just shooting the match (letting go). I have been practicing with guys a heck of a lot better than me and we have been working on taking targets between an actuator target and the actuated target so I knew without a doubt I could take one of the statics in between (doubt-free plan). When I was shooting it felt soooo slow and deliberate it was almost like I was out there not competing. I didn't realize until later but I won that stage for the day, looking back it almost feels like my ego, inner dialogue etc. just wasn't there with me behind the gun to screw it up. Very cool feeling Edited September 1, 2012 by Chef J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryYu Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) I had a mini Zen moment shooting Roundabout today. Got into the zone and went from 8.77s to 4.16 seconds. The most awesome thing was the 5th string I subconsciously called the last two targets as misses and had followup shots in the air before I could even think "I missed those 2". Heard 2 pings on steel right about the time the RO managed to yell out "MI... never mind" Wound up doing it in 4.72 with 2 makeup shots, so I was able to realize I missed both of them, make the transition back, and fire off two shots in .6 seconds which is amazing (to me)! I also accidentally dropped my mag on the first stage of the day, but that's some lefty fat fingering for you. Edited September 23, 2012 by TerryYu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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