Cheap, Decent 223 bullets

[Harmon]

garrett, your link just goes to the grafs website, what is the name of the product* brand??

it would be nice if MG made good accurate 224 dia bullets WITH A FLAT BASE ..the boat tail only eases loading into the case...as it offers practically no advantages over flat based bullets....i mean how many times do you shoot subsonic 223s? and at what range does the 55 grain FMJ go subsonic??

i like the hornady bullets, they shoot nice even out of my mini 14...2-3 inches at 100 yards...win ball ammo is all over the place, or am i???

I use win 748, nice clean accurate powder...havent tried varget or 335, 322 works good as well....

[EricW]

...win ball ammo is all over the place, or am i???

Win bullets are worthless garbage. I directly substitued the Hornadays with zero loading changes and my rifle immediately went back to its sub-MOA self. I think the Hornadays are well-worth the extra $10/K just to KNOW that your stuff is going to work.

[Garrett]

Sorry, the link should have gone here. But, if for some reason that doesn't work, look under "brass & bullets", click on the "graf" brand, and select "rifle bullets".

[George]

the boat tail only eases loading into the case...as it offers practically no advantages over flat based bullets

Say What? Boat tails exhibit increased BC over flat base projectiles with the same nose shape. Higher BC projectiles fly better supersonic, or subsonic and in wind. At short ranges (under 200 yards) the difference is nominal, but go out to 300 yards, add a 15mph breeze and you will see the difference on the target face very dramatically.

BTW, I shot a rifle stage earlier today (RM3G) that had MGM flash targets out to 330 yards and the wind varied from zero to 20mph during the match.

The MGM IronMan 3gun routinely has shots for AR’s out to 450+ yards. Add some wind and you will wish you were shooting a high quality boat tail match grade projectile.

FYI, a generic 55gr FBMJ (flat base metal jacket) at 3150 fps muzzle velocity will start to go subsonic after 950 yards. A SMK 77 at 2600 fps muzzle velocity will get subsonic at 1050 yards. Boat tails exhibit lower drag.

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Regards,

[wsimpso1]

Sorry, but this is an observation, not a contribution... I find it amusing what each game finds acceptable or not.

There appear to be different standards for accuracy depending upon your game and your seriousness. Perhaps round count figures in too.

IPSC Three Gun shooters are calling 55 FMJ from Hornady acceptable, from other makers OK or not, and praising Dog Town Bullets as excellent. We are also considering ball powders to be OK. And nobody is talking primers... We also tend to burn a bunch of ammo, work from somewhat different positions each time, with our heart pounding, and with a relatively easy target (most of the time - I know, there are 300 yard shots too).

NRA High Power shooters consider 55 FMJ's (no matter who made them) to be suitable for weighting the butt-stock on AR15s and little else. Some High Power folks claim that the number 666 is etched on the meplat. The best that anyone can seem to do with these bullets is about 2 minutes. Dog Town bullets are generally considered unacceptable even for reduced course events (100 and 200 yard matches). Remember now, the ten ring is 2 minutes for the prone stages, and only the very very best of them clean that target with any regularity. The standard for accuracy is down around 1/2 to 3/4 minute. If their ammo shot 2 minutes, they would never have a chance at a clean once you include wind, light, and miscellaneous effect. Everyone in High Power considers Sierra to be standard bullets, with Nosler and Hornady being close. High Power shooters generally stay with stick powders because of temperature sensitivity of ball powders. Primer loyalty is a big deal for these folks too, even though some like Win, Rem and CCI Military primers. A serious High Power shooter will burns a lot less ammo per week too...

Then you move to the bench rest game, where Sierra and Nosler and Hornady are not good enough for most of those guys. Better get Berger, JLK, or the custom makers, plus they are split between ball and stick powders and the various brands of primers...

Varmint hunters - some are picky about their bullets, powder, primers and accuracy, others are not...

Different strokes for different folks...

Billski

[EricW]

IPSC Three Gun shooters are calling 55 FMJ from Hornady acceptable, from other makers OK or not, and praising Dog Town Bullets as excellent.

NRA High Power shooters consider 55 FMJ's (no matter who made them) to be suitable for weighting the butt-stock on AR15s and little else. .... The best that anyone can seem to do with these bullets is about 2 minutes.

I strongly beg to differ - as do little-known, 3rd rate schlock manufacturers of questionable reputation such as Black Hills.

I will post a target later.

[uscbigdawg]

Ditto. Try .75 MOA.

Rich

[George]

I agree with Eric. Most IPSC rifle shooters I know want to see 1 MOA as a minimum for accuracy from a competition AR and less is always preferred. I use SMK 77’s over Varget in a JP CTR-02 rifle and get half MOA easily. Most of the folks I know use SMK 69’s, or a match grade 55 grain projectile.

A couple of pickup shots on steel at 300 plus yards does not help your score. If my crosshairs are anywhere within 80% of the plate diameter, I want the hit 100% of the time.

I also dabble at High Power and understand the need for accuracy in all disciplines. As Mr. Zediker has so elegantly said, “I want all of the points I hold for”.

The big dawgs in IPSC all shoot rifle/ammo combos that can clean the NM course if required. Only newbies and folks who never shoot the big 3gun matches seem to exhibit the “It’s good enough” syndrome referred to.

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Regards,

[EricW]

Hornady's .223 55 gr. FMJ at 100 yards: <1/2" CTC.

Definitely less than 1 moa if I kept on shooting - which is all I need to know.

Now there are TWO genuine bargains in rifle bullets (the other being Nosler's J4 .308 168 gr. BTHP in the handy 250 pack.)

[redmercury2]

WHERE is the lowest priced source for the HORNADY 55"s???

[EricW]

Mid South Shooters Supply has the best shipping rates. The actual bullet price is just slightly lower than Midway.

$12.35 / 250

[ErikW]

Wow. They don't shoot that well through my barrels.

BTW, did you shoot that standing or sitting? (Because we all know you don't shoot from a bench.)

[EricW]

If I admitted that I shot off the bench and used my gun rug and a 30 round monopod as "sandbags", would you think less of me? If yes, then I shot that group single handed, from the hip, assault-style while yelling "Yo, Adrian!"

[wsimpso1]

I stand corrected. It is nice to hear that the Hornady bullets can be made to shoot, atleast in some barrels. If I ever want to load cheap for accuracy again, I will know which bullets to try.

My local 3 gun matches never run over 100 yards and no plates, about half are hoser stages, and the most demanding thing is 100 yard partial IPSC paper, so I just use my GI 55 FMJ bullets over a mild charge of H4895, and fire makeup shots when I feel the need.

Now, I am thinking about the NY IPSC Rifle event down in Binghampton. Ammo for the stage with 300 meter shots will be Sierra 77's over RL15 (my short line ammo left over from NRA High Power), but everything else will be close, so 52's will serve.

So, yes, I am in the expensive bullet group except when the course is a hoser. Maybe I am just a bad guy to be answering this thread...

Billski

[EricW]

Billski,

I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with you. I meant to say I disagreed with the high and mighty highpower doctrine. Sorry for the poor wording on my part.

[uscbigdawg]

Ditto. I use 69gr. SMK's for 90% of the stages we shoot. I'm getting ridiculous .25-.50 MOA groups out of my rifle (believe me I know it's random) and frankly I'm a little lazy to load two different bullets and powders for the rifle (thanks Dad!).

With Winchester 55gr. FMJ-BT's, I'm getting about .75 MOA with about a .25 minute drift with the zero set for the 69's. Pretty cool.

At distance (and wind) the 69's make a HUGE difference. I'm testing the Hornady 68's now. Pretty excited about it for the MUCH better BC.

Rich

[RiggerJJ]

EricW;

Is that sub 1/2 MOA group shot from an AR?

JJ

[EricW]

EricW;

Is that sub 1/2 MOA group shot from an AR?

JJ

Yes. Stock Hartford Horsey Logo HBar. It's not really <1/2 MOA. If I kept shooting that group would probably open up to just shy of 1 MOA. Maybe someday when I'm feeling like going crazy, I'll actually bring sandbags to the range with me.

Naahhhhh.....

[D.Hayden]

After all the 55gr discussions... and good (and yes) cheap 65-70 grainers out there?

[George]

any good (and yes) cheap 65-70 grainers out there?

Good? Yes. The Sierra 69 & the Hornady 68.

Cheap? No.

As good as 62’s are supposed to be, you might as well stick with a 55 grainer.

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Regards,

[Scott G]

EricW,

What was your load for the Hornady's? I just ordered 2,000 and am ready to roll.

Thanks

Scott

[EricW]

Scott,

I think it was 23.0 gr. of H322 or so. All my data is down in the shop. I'll check tonight when I go reload some more.