toddje Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I'm hoping someone can help. I have a Kimber 1911 that's pretty old (about 11 years or so). It's always been a good shooter, but I've not used it much in competition. I'm trying to now, but it has an issue... It runs jacketed bullets well, but does not seem to like "soft" bullets anymore (moly or LRN). Back when it was new, I could run jacketed or lead. I've struggled through this replacing extractor, recoil spring, buying new mags, etc. Here is what it's doing to the front of the bullet. (Those are Bayou bullets 230gr that pass a Dillon Case gauge and run great in a Glock 21, about 1.25"OAL) And here is what the stoppage usually looks like. I'm not sure if this is a clue to anyone, but this can sometimes be cleared by slapping the magazine. Again, though, these are new magazines (from Check-Mate). And by the way, I've tried heavier recoil springs and get the same issue. Any ideas? Thanks.... Edited March 25, 2012 by toddje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skdmrklcy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Have a pic of the feed ramp? The end all be all suggestion is to make sure you try other mags as well.. I have had guns that work on check-mate and some that would not feed worth a darn with them same with other brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 extractor tension too heavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddje Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the help... OK - so here are the feed ramp pictures. I've used Check-Mate, Wilson Combat 47D's (made it worse), Kimber mags and Colt 7 rounder's. I wonder if I need to go shorter on OAL, maybe? Maybe it's not making the 'turn' into the barrel? Edited March 25, 2012 by toddje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skdmrklcy Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It almost looks like the barrel could be over setting the frame ramp? Just a guess looking at it plus the nicks on the nose of the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Malf looks like too much extractor tension. Also, check to make sure you have enough hook to breach face clearance. You need .070-.080, if below .070 that could cause the malf too. The frame ramp to barrel barrel distance looks to small too. You need a .031 gap between the top of the frame ramp and the start of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I believe the nick on the bullet is happening at the top. it looks like the round cant slide up behind the extractor thus causing the nick. how about a burr on the breech face aroud the firing pin hole? did you say you replaced the extractor? did you radius the bottom of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddje Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 First, thanks for everyone's brain power. I appreciate it! Extractor was replaced by a gunsmith, although I must say I'm not overly excited with the fit myself. (Although I'm no expert) It doesn't slide nicely in and out of its home like the old one does. (I have to get it out with a Glock tool. The horror!) I'm going to put the old extractor in today and run a match with it. Then I'll put the new one back in and do those measurements tonight. I'll report back in after all that. Barrel ramp is not over-runing the feed ramp. May just be my bad photography. It fits together quite tight. Breech face is smooth as a baby's hind side. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Try a slightly shorter OAL or just a different type of bullet, like a truncated cone. When I tried loading my Kimber to a longer OAL it exhibited a similar jam. It seems to me that if it was a mechanical issue, it would be doing it with FMJ's as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Your ammo is definitely too long, but I'm not certain that will solve your problem completely. Either way, seat the bullet until that bearing surface is level with the end of the brass or stick up just slightly. IIRC, I load mine at about 1.245". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The throat is to sharp where it blends into the chamber. Put a radis on it and set mag lips @ .405 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If it was working before and now is not... my shade-tree-logic suggests looking at what was changed right before the problem started. I agree with the suggestion that the extractor tension is too tight, and it sounds like that was recently replaced. If it is too tight, the case rim can't slip under the hook and that typically results in tipping up the front of the bullet. The suggestion about radius-ing the hook is a good one, and it only takes just a little to dress the underside of the extractor's hook to remove that sharp corner. You mention that it is harder to remove the extractor from the slide, and that could be another sign that your extractor's tension is too high (it would have a slight bow in it cause by the tension, and that is why it requires some prying to remove it from the tunnel). If you compare the two extractor's side by side, does the new one have more arc? Heck, for that matter, does the gun feed reliably with the old extractor in it? If it does, that narrows down the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Check your recoil spring. A 16# will likely fix all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I had the exact same problem with my Kimber. It was cured when I had the extractor properly tensioned. Before, all that is would feed was factory 230gr FMJ. After the extractor work it would feed everything. I also put a radius on the barrel throat as recommend by Bennny Hill. Feeds everything from any mag without the previous "Cur-Chunk" sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddje Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 So... today's match fed well, ejected not so well. As indicated, I put the old extractor in and also shortened the ammo to 1.230". Of course I knew before today that the old extractor was bad, so I expected some malfunctions, and indeed had some, but they were all fail to eject, not fail to feed. So thanks again folks. I think I'll be working on the new extractor some. So much for paying a gunsmith so I don't have to worry about it. By the way, there is a 16# recoil spring in this gun right now. So, everyone who said too much extractor tension - you were correct. We'll know for SURE when I get some file and polish time with the extractor that's in there now. Whoever said ammo too long, probably also correct - fixed. Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The throat is to sharp where it blends into the chamber. Put a radis on it and set mag lips @ .405 I agree with Benny, the transition from the throat to the chamber is too sharp. A slight bevel and polish in that area will go a long way towards better functioning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCReid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Mr. Hill is correct. The barrel ramp and throat isn't correct, I would suggest having a competent 1911 smith take a look at the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Does it do this with factory ammo ? It is hard to tell in the pics but the ammo looks like it is not crimped enough. Like the bell was not completely removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroStrideR Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Mr. Hill is correct. The barrel ramp and throat isn't correct, I would suggest having a competent 1911 smith take a look at the gun. will excessive firing eventually somehow misalign the ramp and throat? im trying to guage how long it takes for this to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCReid Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Mr. Hill is correct. The barrel ramp and throat isn't correct, I would suggest having a competent 1911 smith take a look at the gun. will excessive firing eventually somehow misalign the ramp and throat? im trying to guage how long it takes for this to happen Not in a gun that is built correctly from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddje Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 This gun has run for 10 years. I'm a bit nervous of "competent 1911 gunsmiths" at the moment. Can one of you please post a picture of your barrel so I can compare? Sounds like I just need to "take the edge off" the barrel throat. I had it to a gunsmith to install the new extractor due to my FT Eject problem and now I know for sure the tension on the new one is WAY over done. Actually, I think the new extractor needs fitted as well - it's not protruding far enough past the breech face. This pistol runs well on factory ammo, aside from extraction issues with the old extractor. New (new-new, 2nd time's a charm) extractor is due today from Brownells... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skdmrklcy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If someone does not beat me I will post one of the feed ramp/barrel on my RRA 1911. I would not loose faith in 1911 gunsmiths... maybe the one you used though. I know of several good ones but most of the good ones take time and have a backlog of some sort. After all if they are good word gets around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Here is a good example of a frame/throat done well (Chuck Rogers photo). The edge of the barrel is just broken slightly. However, it sounds like your main issue is the extractor tension or hook to breach-face clearance (maybe both). If the new one does not have enough clearance, odds are the one you just ordered will not either. You have to modify the extractor so that the hook has the proper distance from the breach-face, sometimes you will need to weld a shim in there too. Edited March 28, 2012 by tpcdvc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddje Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thanks for that. New extractor showed. I also took a file and some polish to the new-old extractor. The new-new extractor dropped RIGHT in and seems to be just about right as far as tension. So, I took a bit of flitz to the breech face to clean up 10yrs of dirt and grime and I think I may take some flitz to the barrel. I just don't think I have the guts to go actually trying to take any material off (no dremel for me). So thanks again everyone. I'll report back after I get to the range... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddje Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Duplicate post. Edited March 29, 2012 by toddje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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