Major Match Registration Suggestions

[mpeltier]

A lottery would be one way to turn me off for setting time aside for the next year. If an event went to a lottery I would put it last on my list of shoots to make.

I cant make them all any way and I probably would not be missed

I feel the same way.

Though I have not had trouble with online registration, I do not care much for it. It seems all to easy for too many folks (including those who truly do not even know if they can attend) to push the button and clog up the system. I like the printed application and mail your check method.

[Flatland Shooter]

There does seem to be a huge advantage to shooting with one group than others, specially when you see the results the top 10 shooters are usually also on the same squad. (aka super squad)

I've asked MD's why all the top shooters are in a "Super Squad". Their justification is always "folks like to watch the top shooters and its easier to do if they are all in one squad".

The other competitors are too busy shooting their match to wander over to the Super Squad's stage. So if you want to watch the top shooters, you came out as a spectator, not a competitor. Not that many show up just to watch.

If I was a sponsored top shooter (will never happen) I would want to be squaded with as many different people as possible. Part of their job is to show what great guys they are and what a great product they are representing. Spread them out between squads would be better for them and for us.

Bill

[Jesse Tischauser]

If I was a sponsored top shooter (will never happen) I would want to be squaded with as many different people as possible. Part of their job is to show what great guys they are and what a great product they are representing. Spread them out between squads would be better for them and for us.

Bill

[Jack T]

I wonder how many people play the countdown game on the computer just to see if they can get in (3 Gun Registration), but they have no intentions of actually shooting the match?

You want to shoot, pay up front with the registration process. Make the commitment with either online registration or paper/mail.

Jack

Edited March 11, 2012 by Jack T

[jar]

I think a lottery is the best solution to the too many shooters not enough slots problem. The race method is problematic, both online and by mail. Both have a lot of risk involved(computer / server issues, vagaries of teh post office), and online requires everyone to be at a computer at a certain time. If I were running a major, this is what I would try. I've never run anything but a club match, so maybe there are problems I'll miss, but here goes:

When the application goes up/ dates are announced, set a date about 3 weeks from then. People can sign up either online, or by mail, as long as it's before the deadline. Online will include CC info, paper includes a check. On the deadline day, the staff enters all of the paper apps in the system and then runs a lotto for slots. Returning shooters either get slots first, or get an extra chance in the lottery for each previous match shot. Draw however many slots are available. Hit those CCs/cash those checks. The lotto will also sort people on the waitlist. When someone cancels, call down the waitlist until someone accepts and immediately cash their check / hit their card and refund the canceler less a small fee.

I'd allow people to list others they want to shoot with and accomodate as many as possible in the squads and do the rest randomly.

[Jack T]

Top shooters, mostly, want to shoot with the other top shooters. Numerous reasons, but generally they are there by choice, unless a match is being filmed and then the MD would like to have the "Super Squad" to make it easier for the cameras.

f*#k a lottery! First come, first serve. Who cares about new shooters getting in the match, they are just another shooter, like everyone else. What's next, racial equality/diversity percentages properly represented within the match?

You pay your money and you go shoot!

Jack

[assaulter]

What if some of the bigger matches started running the same match on consecutive weekends. You could double the attendance. Didn't/doesn't MGM do something like this? I recognize that this creates a lot of difficulty in logistics, but it could be done.

[Jesse Tischauser]

What if some of the bigger matches started running the same match on consecutive weekends. You could double the attendance. Didn't/doesn't MGM do something like this? I recognize that this creates a lot of difficulty in logistics, but it could be done.

That would be awesome! It just takes double the man power and double the vacation days for MD's and RO's. It would be really cool at the ProAm for instance if the Pro's could shoot Thursday & Friday then stick around and RO Saturday and/or Sunday for the AM match.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser

[bbbean]

I know when I got to shoot with BJ Norris and Jerry Miculek of Team S&W in my 2nd major match at Midwest 3 gun in 2010 I was more than excited to watch them shoot and ask for advice. I think I asked Jerry what magnification he was running on his scope on every stage. BJ was really helpful as well despite the fact that it was his first major 3 gun match.

Some of the best friends I have in this sport are people I met going to big matches where I didn't know anyone. I'd be more than happy to shoot with any shooting team I can think of. I don't lose too much sleep over the fact that our shirts might not match.

BB

[bbbean]

What if some of the bigger matches started running the same match on consecutive weekends. You could double the attendance. Didn't/doesn't MGM do something like this? I recognize that this creates a lot of difficulty in logistics, but it could be done.

How many matches do you volunteer for?

[Dan Sierpina]

I think a lottery is the best solution to the too many shooters not enough slots problem. The race method is problematic, both online and by mail. Both have a lot of risk involved(computer / server issues, vagaries of teh post office), and online requires everyone to be at a computer at a certain time. If I were running a major, this is what I would try. I've never run anything but a club match, so maybe there are problems I'll miss, but here goes:

When the application goes up/ dates are announced, set a date about 3 weeks from then. People can sign up either online, or by mail, as long as it's before the deadline. Online will include CC info, paper includes a check. On the deadline day, the staff enters all of the paper apps in the system and then runs a lotto for slots. Returning shooters either get slots first, or get an extra chance in the lottery for each previous match shot. Draw however many slots are available. Hit those CCs/cash those checks. The lotto will also sort people on the waitlist. When someone cancels, call down the waitlist until someone accepts and immediately cash their check / hit their card and refund the canceler less a small fee.

I'd allow people to list others they want to shoot with and accomodate as many as possible in the squads and do the rest randomly.

Jeff,

Try that locally for a pistol match. Limit it to 30 shooters and tell them you're going to draw the lucky 30 and see what sort of reaction you get.

[Jesse Tischauser]

What if some of the bigger matches started running the same match on consecutive weekends. You could double the attendance. Didn't/doesn't MGM do something like this? I recognize that this creates a lot of difficulty in logistics, but it could be done.

How many matches do you volunteer for?

As of right now just the two majors in Oklahoma. High Plains Shooting Challenge and the new USSA 3 Gun Championship. If they bring the ProAm pistol match back in 2013 I'll probably work that one too. Without volunteers non of the matches happen.

There arent enough days of vacation to work the out of state matches unfortunately.

[Nuke8401]

Speaking of Teams wanting to block off a squad for themselves why should they get preference? What if everyone did that? Should sponsors gets slots for shooters?

This post has been edited by Jesse Tischauser: 10 March 2012 - 10:59 AM

Posted Yesterday, 09:58 AM

Nuke8401, on 11 March 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Quote

Should sponsors gets slots for shooters?

I almost posted about this in the sponsorship page the other day.

I think this is already the case.

Based on emails/posts for the last big on-line registration match I signed up for; sponsored shooters (where the sponsor pays the match fee) seem to have a different circuit to get into a match. I would also guess sponsors who contribute significantly to a match and have a group of shooters (not talking PRO sponsored shooters here) they want to shoot the match would have no problem getting them in.

I am surprised, and glad, 3GN went purely by performance in the "PRO series".

No fault of the person running it but online registration the past two years/matches I have done online might as well have been random draw as it didn’t really matter when you pushed the enter button and if you wanted to register by mail then you had no chance of getting in.

I think the only “far” way is to have a lottery/random draw system, same as limited big game hunting permits.

Just to get into a big match in the future you may need a "match fee paying" sponsor.

David E.

It's not about Sponsors paying fees. Sponsors have to donate roughly $1500 in cash, gear, certificates, or guns they are rewarded with a nice Tax write off, advertising in the form of their stuff gets in the hands of shooters, and one free slot into the match. The 2nd and 3rd slots if even possible cost about double and triple that amount. Some of the major match Spondors at these Matches are giving over $10,000 in stuff for the prize tables.

This post has been edited by Jesse Tischauser: Yesterday, 10:02 AM

You asked the question, I was just answering.

So the lottery idea seems pretty unpopular.

The problem is it's already a lottery:

Online - just the luck of the click gets you your spot, a lottery by any other name. Definitly NOT first come first served, too much luck (and world blocks, computers, internet speed) involved

Mail/post mark - 300 apps post marked on the same day, 150 slots, put them in a bucket and pick out 150, sounds like a lottery to me.

David E.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Speaking of Teams wanting to block off a squad for themselves why should they get preference? What if everyone did that? Should sponsors gets slots for shooters?

This post has been edited by Jesse Tischauser: 10 March 2012 - 10:59 AM

Posted Yesterday, 09:58 AM

Nuke8401, on 11 March 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Quote

Should sponsors gets slots for shooters?

I almost posted about this in the sponsorship page the other day.

I think this is already the case.

Based on emails/posts for the last big on-line registration match I signed up for; sponsored shooters (where the sponsor pays the match fee) seem to have a different circuit to get into a match. I would also guess sponsors who contribute significantly to a match and have a group of shooters (not talking PRO sponsored shooters here) they want to shoot the match would have no problem getting them in.

I am surprised, and glad, 3GN went purely by performance in the "PRO series".

No fault of the person running it but online registration the past two years/matches I have done online might as well have been random draw as it didn’t really matter when you pushed the enter button and if you wanted to register by mail then you had no chance of getting in.

I think the only “far” way is to have a lottery/random draw system, same as limited big game hunting permits.

Just to get into a big match in the future you may need a "match fee paying" sponsor.

David E.

It's not about Sponsors paying fees. Sponsors have to donate roughly $1500 in cash, gear, certificates, or guns they are rewarded with a nice Tax write off, advertising in the form of their stuff gets in the hands of shooters, and one free slot into the match. The 2nd and 3rd slots if even possible cost about double and triple that amount. Some of the major match Spondors at these Matches are giving over $10,000 in stuff for the prize tables.

This post has been edited by Jesse Tischauser: Yesterday, 10:02 AM

You asked the question, I was just answering.

So the lottery idea seems pretty unpopular.

The problem is it's already a lottery:

Online - just the luck of the click gets you your spot, a lottery by any other name. Definitly NOT first come first served, too much luck (and world blocks, computers, internet speed) involved

Mail/post mark - 300 apps post marked on the same day, 150 slots, put them in a bucket and pick out 150, sounds like a lottery to me.

David E.

I guess I misunderstood the meaning of your post. I thought u misunderstood the reason and costs associated with those slots sponsors are given. I was under the impression u were thinking any shooter with a jersey got a free slot or something close to that.

My sponsor Stag Arms has been giving out a lot of donations and I haven't seen any of the matches do anything other than exactly what they list on their sponsorship packets. Believe me i have tried to find ways into hard to enter matches and it don't work.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser

[Nuke8401]

I guess I misunderstood the meaning of your post. I thought u misunderstood the reason and costs associated with those slots sponsors are given. I was under the impression u were thinking any shooter with a jersey got a free slot or something close to that.

My sponsor Stag Arms has been giving out a lot of donations and I haven't seen any of the matches do anything other than exactly what they list on their sponsorship packets. Believe me i have tried to find ways into hard to enter matches and it don't work.

Not picking on you or anyone here, it seems like a no win, I can/could understand "PRO" shooters getting an invite based on their top finishes, I think they have earned it. I don’t think just because I clicked the mouse before Jerry M. that I should get into a match and he should have to sit it out. (not that I could out click him) But drawing the line would be hard, top 10? Top 50?

Same with sponsors, I appreciate what they do for sure. I think they deserve some consideration when/if they request for someone form their organization get to shoot the match. Again, it's hard to draw the line on how many, is it tied to money?

Without the sponsors we would be short on matches.

If there are very few slots already "taken" by Sponsors then I applaud both the sponsors and the match organizers.

I still think the true PROs need a special invite as long as it doesn't get out of control.

I’m the first to admit, I have no new or good answers to the registration thing.

I thought the "Mayor" always got a special invitation?

David E.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I thought the "Mayor" always got a special invitation?

David E.

One would think so, right? It's usually a special invitation to kiss someones AXX though.

I do think inviting the top guys like Jerry, Clint, Kurt, Daniel, Tyler, Rustin, Kelly is a good idea. These guys and several others makes the competition fierce and the new Shooters want to see them shoot and meet them.

[kellyn]

If I was a sponsored top shooter (will never happen) I would want to be squaded with as many different people as possible. Part of their job is to show what great guys they are and what a great product they are representing. Spread them out between squads would be better for them and for us.

Bill

I, for one, like computer sign up and payment as opposed to snail mail.

Matches need to have a certain set number of sponsor slots however OR there will be little or no sponsorship.

As for squadding, I like to shoot with my amigos, who I oftentimes only get to see at matches BUT I am a firm believer in divisional supersquads, especially in 3 gun. The top shooters in each division should shoot the match in roughly the same environmental conditions if at all possible. For example at Camp Perry, they squad all the Masters and High Masters on the same relay so they are shooting in the same conditions. If you don't do this, people start questioning whoever won on the internet.

I like the idea of spreading top shooters around in theory but not so much in practice due to this reason.

[bbbean]

What if some of the bigger matches started running the same match on consecutive weekends. You could double the attendance. Didn't/doesn't MGM do something like this? I recognize that this creates a lot of difficulty in logistics, but it could be done.

How many matches do you volunteer for?

As of right now just the two majors in Oklahoma. High Plains Shooting Challenge and the new USSA 3 Gun Championship. If they bring the ProAm pistol match back in 2013 I'll probably work that one too. Without volunteers non of the matches happen.

There arent enough days of vacation to work the out of state matches unfortunately.

I was wondering about assaulter. I wondered if he realized the extra demands his proposal would put on match staff.

BB

[Jesse Tischauser]

BUT I am a firm believer in divisional supersquads, especially in 3 gun. The top shooters in each division should shoot the match in roughly the same environmental conditions if at all possible. For example at Camp Perry, they squad all the Masters and High Masters on the same relay so they are shooting in the same conditions. If you don't do this, people start questioning whoever won on the internet.

You're in luck! I think there is a new 3 Gun Pro Series that will be on TV that is doing exactly this.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser

[jar]

Jeff,

Try that locally for a pistol match. Limit it to 30 shooters and tell them you're going to draw the lucky 30 and see what sort of reaction you get.

So the lottery idea seems pretty unpopular.

The problem is it's already a lottery:

Online - just the luck of the click gets you your spot, a lottery by any other name. Definitly NOT first come first served, too much luck (and world blocks, computers, internet speed) involved

Mail/post mark - 300 apps post marked on the same day, 150 slots, put them in a bucket and pick out 150, sounds like a lottery to me.

David pretty much summed it up. I only think the lottery needs to come in for the matches where they get more apps than slots as soon as registration opens.

The limited space matches I've worked and/or shot are:

IDPA indoor nationals. This match falls in to the category where I think a lottery would be good. One of the recent matches, the sign up website crashed and it was a huge mess. This year they did priority registration for previous shooters and very few if any new shooters got in. A bunch of people got pissed off about it.

IDPA New England Regionals: I work this match, so I haven't needed to get a slot. If I remember right, it sold out long before the match, but there were open slots for quite a while. First come first serve works fine when it takes a week or two or more to fill. Might become an issue later.

BUAS USPSA club matches: I worked them this year but only as an RO, so I don't know the background details. I know last year there was plenty of time before they were full.

If a match sells out in minutes, these are the possible choices I see:

1. Uncontrolled total luck as described by David above

2. Controlled total luck, ie a lottery

3. Match directors picking who they invite

4. Combo of 3 and 4 as I describe above (priority for past shooters)

5. Raise prices until the match just barely sells out

6. Do 5 more directly and have a Dutch auction for the slots.