NickAument Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 so you base your decision on what he paid 13 years ago........sorry but that's nonsense. $1425 was fair. By the way a 14 year old pistol isn't like milk, they don't spoil. That gun was probably hand built by Les and not the in house trainees he has today. Based on your concepts my 68 GTO that I paid $2200 for in 1973 should be worth scrap metal prices, funny last offer was 85K!? Maybe I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nick, The pistol was originally listed by the seller to be in great shape with a low round count. I saw the pic and said "Wait a minute...." 'cos the finish looked worn. I called the shop and was told it was "hardly used and had a low round count" I asked for further info on year it was made and what the seller considered a low round count and the questions were ignored so I did my own research and found from Les Baer that the pistol was 14 years old. The seller STILL has yet to even give me any sort of idea what he considers to be a "low round count". The staff at Les Baer pointed out that a new one for $1620 with a lifetime warranty would be a better buy than a used/possibly abused one for $1425+tax and I agree with them. Not saying the pistol is crap...just saying the seller has unreasonable pricing for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nick, The pistol was originally listed by the seller to be in great shape with a low round count. I saw the pic and said "Wait a minute...." 'cos the finish looked worn. I called the shop and was told it was "hardly used and had a low round count" I asked for further info on year it was made and what the seller considered a low round count and the questions were ignored so I did my own research and found from Les Baer that the pistol was 14 years old. The seller STILL has yet to even give me any sort of idea what he considers to be a "low round count". The staff at Les Baer pointed out that a new one for $1620 with a lifetime warranty would be a better buy than a used/possibly abused one for $1425+tax and I agree with them. Not saying the pistol is crap...just saying the seller has unreasonable pricing for it. I bet if you offered him $1300 he would take it. At $800 ... you are bargain shopping. Not a bad thing to bargain shop but sometimes you don't get the bargain. At $1300, you won't get hurt and neither will the seller. Also, worn finish is not an indication of round count. Many a carry gun has substantial finish wear and very few rounds downrange. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickAument Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Anyone who owns a blued baer KNOWS if you look at it too long the finish will wear! Baer blueing if you can call it that is waaay tooo thin, I mkean this seriously..... excessive handling causes it to wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That is so true. Thin very thin blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That is so true. Thin very thin blue. I concur. The bluing on mine is getting pretty worm and I LOVE the look. When it is bad enough though, it is going to get hard chromed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david s Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Most of the new guns won't function 100% until you shoot about a 1000 rounds to wear them in. They are that tight. They shoot like a laser. They are worth the money if you want to spend it. Be careful, it might be hard to shoot the Kimber after spending time with the LB.....LOL DougC Are Les's guns really that good? BullsEye 50yd gun. The MONOLITH Heavyweight 38 Super/Comp w/1 1/2" gaurantee looks at $25-$2700 like it should get the job done! Where do SVI custom 1911's built to Monolith specs come into play? Gun to gun, not $. Same build time for both-- 11-13 months out for both. Money from heaven and the fact that i have to buy my own gold watch next month when i retire are driving this purchase. Help! Mod -- I know this is in the wrong place but these guys can best help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 While I know the Les Baers are GREAT weapons and will last a long time ...IMHO this guys being unreasonable asking almost full price for a used on that if I pay 200 more I can get a brand new one with a lifetime warranty. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 For the money, if you want incredible accuracy and hand built, then yes. My 'smith for over 15 years was a former shop manager for Les, and when he started all he did was barrel guns. All day long. He couldn't even begin to tell me how many guns he barreled. He did remember how many he screwed up, and that was on one hand. He would use the mill to get real close and then use a stone and hand fit the barrel. He had to use the rawhide mallet to get the gun to lock up and unlock until he had it where he wanted. He shot the gun until the wear was how he wanted it, and the gun was reliable. He knew the gun's tolerances and made me shoot about 5K through the gun, then he let me hardchrome it (it was that tight) He looked over a very popular limited gun 5in .40(gunsmith building expensive open guns and limited guns). The slides have a unique hole pattern on the slide. He looked it over and showed us where the slide would crack. I have seen 7 of those slides cracked in the same place....Only reason I don't use him anymore is that he works for the FBI now.... The guy I do use was taught by my guy above......LOL My experience...yours might vary, but don't compare a factory gun in the showcase with a Baer... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david s Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 For the money, if you want incredible accuracy and hand built, then yes. My 'smith for over 15 years was a former shop manager for Les, and when he started all he did was barrel guns. All day long. He couldn't even begin to tell me how many guns he barreled. He did remember how many he screwed up, and that was on one hand. He would use the mill to get real close and then use a stone and hand fit the barrel. He had to use the rawhide mallet to get the gun to lock up and unlock until he had it where he wanted. He shot the gun until the wear was how he wanted it, and the gun was reliable. He knew the gun's tolerances and made me shoot about 5K through the gun, then he let me hardchrome it (it was that tight) He looked over a very popular limited gun 5in .40(gunsmith building expensive open guns and limited guns). The slides have a unique hole pattern on the slide. He looked it over and showed us where the slide would crack. I have seen 7 of those slides cracked in the same place....Only reason I don't use him anymore is that he works for the FBI now.... The guy I do use was taught by my guy above......LOL My experience...yours might vary, but don't compare a factory gun in the showcase with a Baer... DougC VERY strong recomendation coming from you! I've got the STI "factory gun" thing but where it got real confussing to me is Infinity Firearms (SVI guns) and STI(factory gun) both make almost identical 2011 guns and of course STI makes factory 1911's also. From my understanding all SVI guns are hand built thru their Gunbuilder section. Again i think this how it works with them: I build the gun off of their sight, email to them and they return email w/price. Then you order thru an FFL. Build time might run longer than 12 months. Won't find SVI's in showcases but there are places that have 50 STI's for sale now on the web. Thanks for helping take the STI's off the table, if someone doesn't have some real nice things to say about the Custom SVI 1911's i'm going to go with th LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hey now..... There is absolutely nothing wrong with the STIs being built today. You might have a problem here or there but they will make it right, just like any manufacturer. They do a lot for the shooting sports, so you won't go wrong with either an STI or an SVI. There is more "prestige" with an SVI, no doubt. It is your hard earned money, and can spend it however you want. In my comparison on factory guns I meant a Kimber or anyone of the factory 1911 SS guns vs. a Baer SS gun. If you can afford an SVI and want one, go for it. I just wanted to compare apples to apples... Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david s Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Doug, "Kimber Factory" guns, i got it now! Guys who have owned two Kimbers in the past are a liitle slow. I don't do "prestige" and i got a real bad feeling SVI's are 3K+ guns. I think the line in the sand is $2700 delivered. I found out three days ago that Les only puts the 1 1/2" Gaurrentee on non-SS 5" or 6" only. They say they get a tighter slide fit on their blued guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 + 1 great comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 i have 5 LB's ..The latest is an Ultimate Master i got last yr for like $2700. and then i just had Benny Hill redo the ambi safties and do sweeeeet trigger job on it last month,it has right 1200rnds on it..Gave my 2001 PII Baer with 85k rounds thru it to my son and he's allready put another 3k thru it..One of my favorite is a 1994 built gun numbered under 1100,and went i sent it back 5 yrs ago to have night sitghts fitted,Les wanted to know if i wanted to trade it back in!! He remembered building that gun..Have a C7 and another stainless PII 9mm.. They all have holster wear... Ikeep on looking for the shooter who wants to sale his because he has so much trouble taking it apart.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceDevil Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think you'll find the SVI guns are out of your stated price range. They start at $3300 and can go way up from there. They are really full custom guns as opposed to semi-custom production guns like the Baers. You won't have as many choices as with an SVI, but the Baer's are great shooters and a great bang for the buck, especially if you can find a gently used one. Doug, "Kimber Factory" guns, i got it now! Guys who have owned two Kimbers in the past are a liitle slow. I don't do "prestige" and i got a real bad feeling SVI's are 3K+ guns. I think the line in the sand is $2700 delivered. I found out three days ago that Les only puts the 1 1/2" Gaurrentee on non-SS 5" or 6" only. They say they get a tighter slide fit on their blued guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks Doug...great comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think you'll find the SVI guns are out of your stated price range. They start at $3300 and can go way up from there. They are really full custom guns as opposed to semi-custom production guns like the Baers. Have you seen how Les Baer's pistols are made? There was a neat feature on Shooting USA (and available through Youtube, I believe) that shows the process. They are indeed custom pistols--although made by many pairs of hands instead of just one guy. Everything is hand-fitted, the checkering is cut by hand, beavertails and magwells blended by hand, etc., etc. On the downside, the Baers I have owned and handled all need trigger work--although it usually comes down to a fairly minor adjustment of the sear spring to bring the trigger pull down to a very nice level. Even so, I don't really agree with characterizing the Baer pistols as "semi-custom." They're every bit as custom as any SVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Doug,"Kimber Factory" guns, i got it now! Guys who have owned two Kimbers in the past are a liitle slow. While they are not the same as a custom gun, there's really nothing wrong with a Kimber 1911, especially considering the price point. I am fortunate to own a bunch of really nice custom 1911s, including a couple built by very well-known 'smiths and a couple I have built myself. Yet I must admit my Kimber .38 Super Single-Stack is one of the better 1911s I own. Maybe I got lucky, but my Kimber is fit up extremely well, and those much-maligned (and unfairly so!) MIM internal parts are holding up great after quite a few years! It's funny how snobby some people get about brand names. (And just for the record, I drive my black Mercedes to the shooting matches because of its reliability and durability, not for the prestige factor!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david s Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think you'll find the SVI guns are out of your stated price range. They start at $3300 and can go way up from there. They are really full custom guns as opposed to semi-custom production guns like the Baers. Have you seen how Les Baer's pistols are made? There was a neat feature on Shooting USA (and available through Youtube, I believe) that shows the process. They are indeed custom pistols--although made by many pairs of hands instead of just one guy. Everything is hand-fitted, the checkering is cut by hand, beavertails and magwells blended by hand, etc., etc. On the downside, the Baers I have owned and handled all need trigger work--although it usually comes down to a fairly minor adjustment of the sear spring to bring the trigger pull down to a very nice level. Even so, I don't really agree with characterizing the Baer pistols as "semi-custom." They're every bit as custom as any SVI. The manufacturing process has to involve more than one guy starting with a block of billet steel and doing the CNC milling, making one barrel for that gun and cutting hammer out of the same piece. As Doug described his friend made barrels for years befor he was allowed to do final assembly. Most all of SVi's Barrels are after market. Les makes his own! The Monolith is just a black gun nothing fancy looking. In this day and time LB's seem to be as custom as it gets. They got 6k LB pistol for sale, just not for me. On there 1 1/2" guns it adds 8 hours labor, that's the kind of custom i'm looking for--all custom work on the inside of the gun. This gun will see many hours of holster time, a 4lb trigger just might work for me? Both Kimbers i've owned each returned to the shop twice, i'm a little gun shy on the Kimber product. That said the All Steel 38 Super is the gun of choise at that price point. The ALU frame Kimbers do nothing for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Most all of SVi's Barrels are after market. Les makes his own! The last I knew, Les Baer's barrels were being made by Kart! Which is perfectly fine, because Kart barrels are truly top of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 A Baer concept III was the first real gun i ever bought. The gun just runs and is a tack driver, it eats anyhing I can put in the mags. i know i can trust it to go bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david s Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Most all of SVi's Barrels are after market. Les makes his own! The last I knew, Les Baer's barrels were being made by Kart! Which is perfectly fine, because Kart barrels are truly top of the line. When i talked with the girl at LB, i thought she told me they made their own. My hearing was much better when i was younger. I'll look on their web. Can't go wrong with a Kart barrel unless i could get a Schueman AET barrel. There is no deveation on barrels at build time, they are only going to use the one brand? barrel they use all the time! SVI is the same way but will let you switch to a Schueman. LB's 9mm and 38Super guns now come with fully ramped, supported barrels and is a $500+ option on the bigger calibers. Speaking of mags, what brand does Les ship with his 9mm-38S guns? Will any of the removable base pad after market mags run well in a LB gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 LB's 9mm and 38Super guns now come with fully ramped, supported barrels and is a $500+ option on the bigger calibers. Speaking of mags, what brand does Les ship with his 9mm-38S guns? Will any of the removable base pad after market mags run well in a LB gun? Have you ever seen a 9mm Les Baer? I have seen one (1)--and yes, I bought it instantly. It's a custom 2-tone Premier II with 20-lpi checkering (YES!), blended magwell, and the 1-1/2" guarantee. Friggin' perfect! My Les Baer 9mm came with one Chip McCormick mag. I left that mag in the box because I use Wilson 10-round mags exclusively for SS minor and steel. I have a 9mm load that uses the 95-gr. JHP Montana Gold bullet, and of course the OAL is very short. But I love the way that load cycles the gun at minor P.F.! When fed that particular load, my Les Baer gun didn't want to feed the top round reliably--it would stub on the ramp every time. So I broke out the Dremel and recontoured the ramp, and now it runs 100% with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david s Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 LB's 9mm and 38Super guns now come with fully ramped, supported barrels and is a $500+ option on the bigger calibers. Speaking of mags, what brand does Les ship with his 9mm-38S guns? Will any of the removable base pad after market mags run well in a LB gun? Have you ever seen a 9mm Les Baer? I have seen one (1)--and yes, I bought it instantly. It's a custom 2-tone Premier II with 20-lpi checkering (YES!), blended magwell, and the 1-1/2" guarantee. Friggin' perfect! My Les Baer 9mm came with one Chip McCormick mag. I left that mag in the box because I use Wilson 10-round mags exclusively for SS minor and steel. I have a 9mm load that uses the 95-gr. JHP Montana Gold bullet, and of course the OAL is very short. But I love the way that load cycles the gun at minor P.F.! When fed that particular load, my Les Baer gun didn't want to feed the top round reliably--it would stub on the ramp every time. So I broke out the Dremel and recontoured the ramp, and now it runs 100% with everything. That's great! I can buy mags and not have to take a loan out to pay for them! I asume they will run with the C-M mag? Ever tried Tripp Research or Mec-Gar? No $100 Custom mags to own. It's been a long week collecting all the info i need, Thanks for Everyone's help! The only gun left on the table is the Les Baer! I spoke with a dealer that has a 9mm Monolith 1-1/2" guarantee BUT with Fixed Rear Sights + No Ambi Safety!!!! Must be one hell of a gun to shoot 1 1/2" gaurantee at 50yds w/fixed sights! LB"s web shows that all Monoliths come with "Low mount LBC adjustable sight with hidden rear leaf" and Baer extended ambi safety. So this dealer doe so much business with LB that he can get Monolith Slides not cut for the Adj. r. sights and no Ambi-safety installed. $2700 delivered. Being left handed, i need the ambi-safety, my old eyes need the Adj. sights. I compare this Monolith to a 6" Premier 11, 38 Super 1 1/2" gaurantee gun that took a good while to sell on G/broker for his Starting price of $2700. Dealer cost between the Premier and the Monolith should be dead nuts close but the Premier sold with the Stock Adj. sights and ambi-safety! I got no problem with a small business man making a profit(more is good) but now i've got to send back to LB and have the sights and safety installed. Price now going up! OR i could have everyone i shoot with keep asking me why that gun doesn't have the LB stock equipment on it for that model!! I guess i need to call the dealer back and see what can be done to address my concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Good luck and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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