EricW Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 When I bought the Grams spring/follower kits from Bob Londrigan, the one thing he warned me about was that the followers were so wide that they could cause even a deactivated slide stop to lock back. My gun didn't lock back the Grams followers, but what did happen was that the followers jammed on the slide stop which kept empty mags from ejecting. Bob recommended that I trim the followers - which was probably the correct path, but eventually, I would like to have a gun that locks back, so I tried a different way first. Whoever trimmed my slide stop did a pretty lousy job of it, so I decided to clean it up and see if I could thin out what used to be the follower ledge to where the mags would drop. In short, it worked. Trimming the stop down so that there was about .030" of material left on the hook that retains the slide stop, then polishing it thoroughly kept my gun from locking back and allowed my mags to drop free. I didn't have to trim the ledge on the followers, so if and when I decide to install a new slide stop, I can have my gun lock back. Best of all worlds.... The new Grams followers are the sh*t, BTW. I immediately got a reloadable 19 rounds with no tweaking or brain strain on my part. (Yes, I know I could get 20, but I'll take a 100% reliable 19 any day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 What did you get in a mag before the Grams upgrade? I have 3 or 4 combo's that will give me 19 and 100% reliability. The quest is for a dependable and reloadable 20 rounds of .40 in a 140mm mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I got lucky, I didn't have to further trim my slide stop any..... And I got easy 19 rounds in 3 out of 5 mags, but 2 of them....... gave me a reloadable 20 SV tubes, Grams kit, Dawson +1 pads..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 What did you get in a mag before the Grams upgrade? Before I was getting 18 rounds. But, the mags worked, so I decided not to screw with them. I'm sure I can get 20 if I was willing to tweak the width of the mags - but I'm really not inclined to do that. I'll take the no-brain-strain reliable 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I'll take the no-brain-strain reliable 19. That's where I am now. I don't want to screw up $50 tubes and I will never spend $240 to have my 6 mags "tuned" to hold 20. I've tried all of the different scenarios, and have decided to be happy with 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Stock (untuned) STI tubes, grams 4mm pad, grams old style follower, Wolffe SV/STI extra long spring trimmed to 10.5 coils. This gives me a reloadable 20rds in all of my mags. The trick is to keep the smaller than stock Grams follower from sticking too far out the top of the tube when the mag is empty (death jam if the breech jams into the follower). To do this, my trick to clip the top coil of the spring, then count down 10.5 coils and clip it again. If you notice, the Wolffe springs have a few different sized coils at the top of the spring. When you clip just one of those small coils off, the first larger coil below it will now act as a stop on the inside shoulder of the mag tube preventing the follower from sticking too far out the top. Anyone else do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 My Grams springs seem just a little to weak for me to want to cut any coils.... they work 100%, but just seem weak - so I don't want to mess with them. I have "untuned" mags (other than measuring the feedlips to spec), and 2 of 5 of my mages will give me a functional 20 rds. With Dawson pads. I'd wager with 4mm Grams pads all 5 would be 20 rd mags, without "tweaking" and/or further tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 EricW, You are doing exactly what you need to do if you do not want the slide lock to work at all. I would not recomend taking quite so much off the slidelock, but the idea is right. The design of my new follower is to make slidelock function more reliable, for those people who want it. If you don't, positive deactivation means eliminate the hook on the slidelock, not the follower. That way no mag will activate the slidelock. Any slidelock tuning can be done by simply removing the top end of the gun, (slide and barrel) and installing the slidelock back into the frame. Then you can insert a mag and see exactly how the follower and the slidelock function together. This can be done with one round in the mag also, to adjust for early slidelock problems with one round left in the mag. Removing material off the bottom of the slidelock hook will make the activation later instead of too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 TDean, My new follower design will not stop the slide with slidelock deactivated, and my new spring will not allow the follower to go too high. These problems were just a veiw of the areas of concern when designing the new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 sfinney, The coil count of my Follower Kits are recomended to use as is, (11 for 140mm or shorter, 13 for extended 140mm or longer) and cutting coils will only decrease reliability. The round count you are getting now is good for stock tubes. I would recomend polishing and lubricating the inside of the tube. This will drasticly reduce friction, and eliminate the "feeling" that the mag springs are too weak. If it does not, them more tuning is needed. My 4mm base pads will give you more room then the pads you are using now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 All my Limited mags hold 20 (he's tuned my Open mags too) and reload easy and function flawlessly. All were tuned by Beven. Again, if you're going to drop two to three large on a pistol, a couple of bucks to tune arguably the most critical part on the gun (the mags....maybe the barrel is the most ) is pretty cheap insurance. Too many gunsmith friends shake their head when they get folks that just bought the new $3k, whiz bang pistoley and then use a beat up tube and follower and a three year old spring and blame the gunsmith when the gun doesn't work. Beven, I'll have to pick your brain some time on the new followers and springs and making sure that my slide stop is set up right. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks at Norco! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Rich, On the phone or at the range, anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 That's good new Beven. If my older revision Grams followers ever wear out, I'll get your newest design. Until then, I couldn't be happier. "if it aint broke....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 That's good new Beven. If my older revision Grams followers ever wear out, I'll get your newest design. Until then, I couldn't be happier."if it aint broke....." Mine weren't broke but I replaced them with the new followers and I would do the same again in a heartbeat I did get 20 (reloadable) in my SV tubes now with no tuning with the new setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 Thanks for the feedback Beven! FWIW, I only hacked the stop down that far because the stop was already ground past the point of no return by the previous owner. I guess I should have posted before and after pictures. With your new mag followers, there's just no reason not to set the gun up to lock back now. ----------------------------------------------------- Also, Beven's advice on polishing the insides of the mag tubes is 100% right on. When I switched over to the Grams format followers, the feeding was still less positive than I liked. Polishing helped considerably. (I guess some silicone spray is next.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 People talk about getting all of their mags tuned, which isn't a bad idea. Many don't wnat to spend all that money though, and that is understandable. But, why not get one or two mags tuned up...especially if you can a reliable extra round? Having a mag or two in the bag that will hold that "one more round" can often save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ALL my .40 Para match tubes are being tuned by Beven. I want to reach into my bag, grab any mag, be able to replace any spring or follower with any other, or with new parts from GE, and be absolutely confident that it will "run twenty-one" flawlessly. And that's exactly what I get from the three I have so far. The one minor deviation from this ideal is that Beven told me that the two parts of each basepad are a mated pair, machined and drilled for the retaining pin at same time. He warned me that randomly switching the basepad parts could result in misaligned holes and some excess strain on the parts when the pin is set. This is why he asks for the unbroken part when he replaces breakage - he apparently machines a new part to match the old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 [Thread Undrift Mode] My point in starting this thread was just to illustrate how you can make do with what you've got. I have magazines that work, and that *I* know how to make work all by my little old self. Someday over the rainbow I will send my mags to Beven and get the job done right. But today, for the price of a mag tube, I have four mags that work perfectly in my gun. I'm a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 The new Grams followers are awesome. They have worked flawlessly. However, when I was testing my new pistol yesterday, they were locking back the slide. Turns out the new slide stop has too much material on it. So, tonight I am trimming it down. BTW, Beven tuned all of my mags and they have been working like a charm ever since (almost 2 years now). All get 20 round (40 cal) in them. I also like the holes he put in the back for counting the rounds. It seems like when I am at a match something always distracts me and I lose count. He made it idiot-proof for me. Anyone who has seen me shoot knows I need all the help I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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