Flexmoney Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 PractiScore 1.2 for Android is posted to PS web site. It may take some time to propagate to Google Play. The main change in this version is Steel Challenge support with per-string penalties. NOTE: you won't be able to sync SC matches with current iOS version. You can see complete change log on PS web site at https://practiscore.com/ Is this the latest and greatest version (replaces the beta)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) I have to say I intensely dislike this idea. If you choose to support it, make it an option in the match configuration. I can assure you, I'd NEVER use it. JC, you could use it for entering results from paper score sheets... Bill, no one said anything about your qualification and you didn't have to shout. As I said, I was just curious. Flex did a good write up on it, so there isn't much to add. Human's short memory is an interesting thing, it can only remember few things at a time. When scoring on paper you have a visual marker what next target to score. With pre-populated scores you won't have such marker anymore and it will be easy to loose track after any distraction (e.g. scoring overlay call or scoring corrections). In any case, if you like, I can make a test build just for you to use at your matches. Then you can share your experience with us. Just noticed from Chris' reply to a quote... At 4:28 p.m. you weren't opposed to it and came up with a valid use for it. At 5:15 p.m. after I decided I liked the idea, you flip-flopped and are now fighting it tooth and nail. Hmm..... Add it, don't add it, I'm tired of arguing. I just note that the initial idea for this mode of entry was that of the company owner. Edited August 7, 2013 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Add it, don't add it, I'm tired of arguing. I just note that the initial idea for this mode of entry was that of the company owner. And the owner asked for "thoughts", which we all gave him that. Now, let's move on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 First, i want to say thanks for all the work that goes into this product. It keeps getting better and better. However...I just submitted a Mantis report for a bug with IDPA score reports in v.1.2.0. The col headings are misaligned. Also, I see the feature request for IDPA RangeLog compatible CSV files is deferred to version 1.2.1. I hope that's not too far off, maybe, please, and thank you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 ...noticed from Chris' reply to a quote... At 4:28 p.m. you weren't opposed to it and came up with a valid use for it. At 5:15 p.m. after I decided I liked the idea, you flip-flopped and are now fighting it tooth and nail. Hmm... Bill, maybe I misunderstood you, but what you proposed (show separate rows for each target and prefill As) is quite different from what Ken suggested (only one row for entering target scores). Personally I don't care what approach will be used, but I do see large flaws in both Kens and your suggestions for electronic stage scoring. Oh, and having an option to change how UI works is an extremely bad idea. For many reasons. If there will be new UI for entering scores from paper, it shouldn't be in the same place as regular scoring screen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Then WHY are you on record as suggesting a reason for having Ken's approach, as in data entry from a paper scoresheet?!?! "...Extremely bad idea. For many [uNSPECIFIED] reasons." Number one: YOU don't like it. Never mind; FINE! You're right, I'm wrong. Happy?!?!? We're done here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Jeez, can't we have a civilized discussion about a scoring app without drama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I log in daily to this thread see what the new saga is going to be. You guys outta to kiss and make up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Jeez, can't we have a civilized discussion about a scoring app without drama? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 We can now, please go ahead, I'm done. (This is post 1136 or so of this topic; is this the largest single topic in all of BE?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Not sure what you guys want me to do. It isn't me who is fingerpointing, and making drama here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Any updates on getting .csv or similar exports for SC? I read something about IDPA getting something like that but what about the others? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I haven't heard anything specific from Ken. He is communicating with uspsa. Don't remember if I've seen any details on required format either. Btw, is this request in PS bug tracking system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 There have been attempts to make other threads, but they just wither. )-: I agree my suggestion makes it difficult to know the target count. Is that worth the benefit of a lot less data entry and bigger visually? Sounds like most here think not. A variant is to start with no assumed alphas and then it's just a bigger thing. And we are toying with adding the pad saying the targets as entered so in a glare situation you can hear what you entered. RO calls "Alpha Charlie". You enter "Alpha Charlie" and respond back Alpha Charlie. The pad says "Alpha Charlie" btw my rules on online forums are: a) smile when I write smile when I read c) read what was written in the best positive light d) avoid any personalization, as in "the problem with your idea" and similar. We've just prioritized Android for the next little while, and it focuses around getting data in / out (including activity reports). So we have plenty of time to cogitate on making data entry more perfect.And we are, as we speak, tweaking the USPSA website to accept activity reports generated by PractiScore. I will test that with my club's recent activity, then post to here for a final round of beta testers before making it live everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 There have been attempts to make other threads, but they just wither. )-: We just need Flex to lock this one. A variant is to start with no assumed alphas and then it's just a bigger thing. And we are toying with adding the pad saying the targets as entered so in a glare situation you can hear what you entered. RO calls "Alpha Charlie". You enter "Alpha Charlie" and respond back Alpha Charlie. The pad says "Alpha Charlie" You mean special on-screen keyboard? Make device say out loud what is entered for each target sounds really cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Thanks guys for all your work. I'm constantly told by shooters how much they love PractiScore. It has dramatically improved the match experience at our club. We currently use it to score our USPSA, Outlaw Steel, Mini Steel, and ICORE matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Then WHY are you on record as suggesting a reason for having Ken's approach, as in data entry from a paper scoresheet?!?! It already been explained, but here it is again: If there will be new UI for entering scores from paper, it shouldn't be in the same place as regular scoring screen... "...Extremely bad idea. For many [uNSPECIFIED] reasons." Number one: YOU don't like it. Absolutely no need to put words in my mouth, others already gave number of reasons. For example, see post #1119. From my own experience, it is an UI usability issue when one task can be performed using more than one way. It adds more confusion. For instance, someone who got used to one option have to take a break and pass device to another person who used to scoring other option... I am seeing this situation every week when people using old Stagescore Palm scoring system, which uses different approaches to enter results for time, steel, targets and penalties, without providing additional visual hints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 A variant is to start with no assumed alphas and then it's just a bigger thing. And we are toying with adding the pad saying the targets as entered so in a glare situation you can hear what you entered. RO calls "Alpha Charlie". You enter "Alpha Charlie" and respond back Alpha Charlie. The pad says "Alpha Charlie" You mean special on-screen keyboard? Make device say out loud what is entered for each target sounds really cool! Ugh. That seems like it would create all kinds of confusion -- even being familiar with the scoring process, I frequently have an extra tap or a mis-tap that I have to clear out. The scoring RO doesn't need to know about every time I fat finger.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 By the way, while we are discussing changes for target scoring, I believe I convinced Ken to agree to move steel scoring under targets table. So the first row will be called "Steel" and will only have A, M and NS columns. So, target scoring will look more like regular paper score sheet. Besides unification, this change will allow us to enter NS for steel, which is not possible in the current version (I've been working that around in my matches by adding penalties instead of NSs). In some cases there also need to be NPM column, e.g. IPSC shotgun matches with disappearing steel/clay targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Ugh. That seems like it would create all kinds of confusion -- even being familiar with the scoring process, I frequently have an extra tap or a mis-tap that I have to clear out. The scoring RO doesn't need to know about every time I fat finger.... Last weekend I was working as score keeper on a large stage and lost my voice after first two squads. Device could say target score with some short delay after target row is completed, eg. "Target 7, Alpha, Charlie, Noshoot"... You'll have time to make corrections and RO will know to slow down if he won't hear back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 By the way, while we are discussing changes for target scoring, I believe I convinced Ken to agree to move steel scoring under targets table. So the first row will be called "Steel" and will only have A, M and NS columns. So, target scoring will look more like regular paper score sheet. Besides unification, this change will allow us to enter NS for steel, which is not possible in the current version (I've been working that around in my matches by adding penalties instead of NSs). In some cases there also need to be NPM column, e.g. IPSC shotgun matches with disappearing steel/clay targets. Yep. Convinced. Especially since I LOVE to put NS behind steel targets! WRT talking tablets... we are experimenting with this now in the SASS scoring system (A.C.E.S.). Will see how it goes. Glare remains a problem.... The sunshades help, quite a bit. I'm thinking of giving scorekeepers umbrellas for Nationals. Anybody tried that yet? Also, we train our scorekeepers to find shade where they can still do challenge response with the RO. That helps the most, both for making scorekeeping easy, and encouraging folks to take on the role (stand in shade, I'm in!). We may be able to do this because we have permanent structures up typically from big match to big match that do provide sun block most of the day from one direction or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 ... Glare remains a problem.... The sunshades help, quite a bit. I'm thinking of giving scorekeepers umbrellas for Nationals. Anybody tried that yet? ... Wait, hold on.... The Nationals is going to be scored with Practiscore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 ... Glare remains a problem.... The sunshades help, quite a bit. I'm thinking of giving scorekeepers umbrellas for Nationals. Anybody tried that yet? ... Wait, hold on.... The Nationals is going to be scored with Practiscore? Yep. (-: It will be nice. Emails/texts instantly to shooters. Complete score logging. 1 hour arb period, ready to go. And I'm the MD, and Devin Pitcher (aka Mr. PractiScore iOS) is Stats Dude. Ken N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 If I read this correct, how will the Nooks read back to the scorekeeper. Mine don't have speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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