Introducing PractiScore

[ctay]

You can enter a fake match to test. Probably can be done fairly quickly.

[Rob Tompkins]

Question still stands: has anyone actually used 1.1.2 yet to score a decent-sized (5-6 stages, 40+ competitors) match?

I'll let you know how Sat's 6 stage, ~20 shooter (2 squads) IDPA match goes. I don't exect any issues as I've done a small test match and all was well.

[Mark K]

Ran a 5 stage Tactical Rifle/shotgun match with 30 shooters last weekend, with tha 1.1.2 ver, Bill. Time Plus scoring. No problems. iPad master, Nooks with the squads.

MarkK

[jester121]

You can enter a fake match to test. Probably can be done fairly quickly.

I just did this with the 20+ guys we have signed up for Sunday, it will probably be 50+ at the real match. Worked fine (I got bored and DQed all but 5 of them).

No issues at all. Took it all the way through to EZWin final results.

One quick logistics question, since we're just getting started with Nooks -- do you guys have the Nook travel with the squad, or does the Nook stay with its assigned stage?

I think it might be a nice enhancement to have options on the home screen for "Enter Scores by Squad" and "Enter Scores by Stage", it would just change the sequence of what gets selected and could accommodate both. I haven't sketched it out logically yet though, maybe I'm missing something.

[wgnoyes]

People do it differently. I know of clubs where the nook goes with the squad. And you can do that, BUT.... Say something happens to the nook, you drop it, spray paint it, crush it under your boot, put a staple through the screen, whatever. If the nook stays on the stage and is dedicated to that stage, well, losing the data is bad, but you can throw out the stage and the match is still relatively intact. If the nook travels with the squad, however, and something happens to it, then you've lost the entire match for those competitors and that to me is far worse.

I also individually name the nooks in the sync tab. The default is "android device"; I rename then to something like "SRGC_USPSA_01" (02, 03, etc, SRGC is "South River Gun Club"). Since the nook stays on the stage, when I'm using the master iPad to pull in scores during conduct of the match, I know from which stage I'm getting new data.

[euxx]

Question still stands: has anyone actually used 1.1.2 yet to score a decent-sized (5-6 stages, 40+ competitors) match?

You should specify what match type you interested for. The differences around scoring and creating results between timeplus/idpa and uspsa matches are big enough, so you may hit an issue that timeplus scorers would never see, and vice versa.

PS: that crash you referred to from the app changelog was only affecting timeplus matches

[jester121]

Thanks Bill, it seems like leaving it on the stage makes the most sense for us, especially since the current workflow through Practiscore is 1) Select a Stage, then 2) Select a squad. As each squad shows up they go back one screen, select their squad, and then go. It also alleviates having to remember to include the stage number in the stage description field if things aren't clearly sequenced.

I also individually name the nooks in the sync tab. The default is "android device"; I rename then to something like "SRGC_USPSA_01" (02, 03, etc, SRGC is "South River Gun Club"). Since the nook stays on the stage, when I'm using the master iPad to pull in scores during conduct of the match, I know from which stage I'm getting new data.

That part I did do, since it makes it real nice for the IOS sync process to reach out and grab what you want. Traveling Nooks would be kind of nice for one reason I can think of -- our wifi will probably only cover bays 1 and 2, so as squads brought their Nooks back into range I could grab scores incrementally, but that's not a huge deal.

[wgnoyes]

Question still stands: has anyone actually used 1.1.2 yet to score a decent-sized (5-6 stages, 40+ competitors) match?

You should specify what match type you interested for. The differences around scoring and creating results between timeplus/idpa and uspsa matches are big enough, so you may hit an issue that timeplus scorers would never see, and vice versa.

PS: that crash you referred to from the app changelog was only affecting timeplus matches

USPSA

[Ken N.]

We tried out a new beta version of PractiScore (for the iOS platform) at our club championship yesterday. The key new feature is score logging and approval. We hope this serves as the basis for a modern, paperless, scoring system that can be used at the highest level of matches with comfort that results are accurate. The basic premise is that NO score can be changed without the change being logged.

- optional (set in the match preferences)

- all scores must be approved by RO and shooter (done on the score review page)

- rationale for DQ and procedurals is captured now

- for testing, approval was just a button, but we envision a Qr code system where the shooter and RO has a card with their credentials in a QR code.

- all scores are logged on the device with device and utc time.

- if wifi / internet is available they are logged to scorelog.practiscore.com (https://scorelog.pra...EE-43D7E2D7A326)

- if wifi isn't available, the RO is informed and has the option to write to a paper log. I don't see the point of this, as the score is logged, and wont change, or if changed

it is noted. But habits die hard.

- scorelog.practiscore.com sends a text or e-mail to the designated point of contact for a shooter - which can be changed on the fly.

- scorelog.practiscore.com will serve as a data basis for some RangeManager/Match Director analysis tools, relating to shooter throughput and other tools

- this version is not compatible for synching with older versions (to keep unlogged / unapproved scores from leaking in)

Thoughts?

Ken N.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Ken N.

[ctay]

very interesting. I'd guess that there is a pretty small percentage of ranges that will have wifi with internet access so that portion may not be use very much but the rest is interesting. Do you see anyway to use this on Android devices that don't have a camera? Maybe give each competitor a password or something in lieu of the QR code? I'd hate to have to give up the advantage of cheap long battery life devices to use the latest features. $300+ i-devices are never going to happen at our club.

[Ken N.]

very interesting. I'd guess that there is a pretty small percentage of ranges that will have wifi with internet access so that portion may not be use very much but the rest is interesting. Do you see anyway to use this on Android devices that don't have a camera? Maybe give each competitor a password or something in lieu of the QR code? I'd hate to have to give up the advantage of cheap long battery life devices to use the latest features. $300+ i-devices are never going to happen at our club.

The internet stuff is a luxury that is a nice feature, but not required for the basic score accuracy / tampering concern. Range wifi is a luxury for a stats guy (like me) who enjoyed pulling in synchs all day from wherever I was - I was also acting as MD and RM for this match, so that our usual suspects for those jobs could shoot. I'm currently not shooting due to shoulder surgery recovery.

On Pins... and QR Code... and Passwords...

The QR code is just a concept - I actually would prefer a much simpler approach like what we did at this match, where there is an Approve button that really just acts as a "Log" button. After scoring is done, the RO/Shooter confer, agree to the score, and the RO logs it. If the shooter isn't involved in an approval after a run then they should raise cain about it with the RO staff. Immediately.

I don't think it necessary to layer in old paper methods on new approaches. I prefer to cut to the core - accurate data entry, and trust self-interest.

Ken N.

[jester121]

Well, we ran our first match ever using Practiscore on Nooks (with pre-registration on ShootnScore). Just under 40 shooters (a bit down due to chilly weather) and I have to say, it ran really smooth. The vast majority of guys had never done tablet scoring and they picked it up quickly, and I'm a newbie with EZWin and we still got it all sorted out. This was using the latest release of everything.

Oh, and scores were posted (with classifiers paid) within 30 minutes of teardown being completed. That was a big win.

[wgnoyes]

Question still stands: has anyone actually used 1.1.2 yet to score a decent-sized (5-6 stages, 40+ competitors) match?

Had to answer my own question. Chris Wren ran a practiscore and ezwin class saturday and we looked at 1.1.2, and saw that when you go into enter scores and select a competitor, it brings up the form with focus set to the time text box and the numeric keyboard already up ready to go. Excellent, and that compelled me to go ahead and take a chance on my match yesterday. SRGC_2013-04-07 on practiscore.com, 68 competitors, 6 stages, ran fine. So 1.1.2 appears to the be the new known stable maintenance level for USPSA matches.

[jcwren]

Ken, in addition to logging directly to scorelog.practiscore.com, I'd like to see an app I can run on a local PC that does the equivalent functionality.

It would be nice if the address were configurable, but if I absolutely had to, I'd run a local DNS server and hijack the domain to point to my app, and I'll dig out wireshark to figure out how it works

I agree about the QR code being overboard. A 3 to 6 digit PIN would handle the non-camera enabled devices nicely.

I've filed a feature request about this some time ago, but what we absolutely need is a way to prevent stages and shooters from being edited. This single thing has caused us the most grief, as far as unexpected changes occurring when syncing. We'd have to work through the model carefully to make sure you can never completely lock yourself out of a match.

[Ken N.]

What we are thinking of is that the device that creates the match has whole authority, no pins / codes needed. But it can set a password that is needed elsewhere to control editing of stages / shooters.

[wgnoyes]

Yes, I need to be ABLE (via password or some other control) to update something on a stage device as an administrator-type function, but otherwise it's locked down. Needed on both ios and android. Thanks for all you do.

[Glock27]

Ran a 5 stage USPSA match with 54 shooters using 1.1.2 on NSTs. No problems at all!...except for one time that was 32.58 and was entered as 3258.00. Not a PractiScore problem!

Bob

[jdphotoguy]

Used PS 1.1.2 on NSTs for the second time to score our monthly USPSA match. We had 94 shooters and 6 stages and the Nooks stayed with the stage, at the previous match the Nooks stayed with the squad. I liked the idea of keeping the NSTs with the stage, that way if a Nook went down, we only lost the scores for that stage and not an entire squad.

To keep the potential of lost scores because of a Nook going down, I spent the match going from stage to stage syncing the Nooks to the master device (Nexus 7) and as a backup my iPhone. We don't have range wide wifi so I used a d-link portable router powdered by a USB battery. This system worked pretty well, but it would be nice if the Android version of PS could show devices to sync with and not have to use the Sync Code.

We had an issue with a few lost scores, but could not nail down if it was user error, e.x. the RO entering the score did not Review and then Save the score or if something else went wrong.

Also had the odd thing were several times when syncing from a Nook or from the Master to my iPhone, that the sync would say Stage info was updated, but when I looked at what was actually changed, there were no changes. It did the same thing with shooters, saying a large number of the shooters (more then half) had updates and again the update said No Change.

I too am all for a method to lock down the scoring devices so only say the MD and appointed staff can change shooter or stage info. The less the folks scoring can change the better, because someone always wants to poke around and inevitably messes something up.

[wgnoyes]

Lost scores; my money's on user error. They either didn't hit review at all, or when they did for the purpose of copying the data to the backup scoresheet (you have a backup scoresheet, right?), they're not hitting save there. I've never seen ANY release of practiscore not save a score when save was actually tapped.

[jdphotoguy]

Lost scores; my money's on user error. They either didn't hit review at all, or when they did for the purpose of copying the data to the backup scoresheet (you have a backup scoresheet, right?), they're not hitting save there. I've never seen ANY release of practiscore not save a score when save was actually tapped.

I'm betting on a ID10T error as well.

[Ken N.]

If you have any ideas on the sequence that led to this, even if human error, then please let us know. We have to factor tired, wet, sweaty humans into this.

Thanks,

Ken N.

[jester121]

There's no code to handle stupid.

[Ken N.]

I'd disagree, in fact, I'm renowned in my company for walking up to a "ready" app or program and breaking it almost instantly. I do it "smart", thinking up corner cases, things I know programmers never think of, and what not, but at the core is the user doing something the programmer didn't expect.

The iOS version, for instance, doesn't have any reports of scores lost, other than some from heat shutdowns at the wrong time last year. And once we knew that might happen, we fixed that as well - so it's nigh on impossible to lose scores with the iOS version. I've used it for 2.5 years, never lost a score. They key difference, I think, is that iOS remembers what you type, as you do it. So exit without saving isn't even possible, there is no "save" button.

It sounds like we need to see how we can get that feature over onto the Android. It isn't trivial, we have to manage a large database, incrementally, with every keystroke. But I"m confident we can sort it out.

So a goal for 2013... no need for people of any experience level to save a score!

[Mark R]

I've had a missing score or two on previous matches using Android Nooks. I wrote it up to user not saving data. Luckily I had backup score sheets to fall back on and re-enter the data once I ran a report in EZWinScore. Didn't find the missing data on Nook since there is no report to do so. But reviewing scores in EZWin made easy work of it.

[wgnoyes]

Yep, that's what the paper is for. EZWS has the kind of missing scoresheets report that practiscore needs badly. Though you can also pull up the list of stages from "enter scores" on the nook and simply browse down list, as he shows you "nn/mm shooters scored". That is, if you sync'ed everything into a master "nook". If the master is an iPad, go into "enter scores", select a stage, and select "all shooters". That will show you, stage by stage, who hasn't shot or didn't get their score recorded. An alternate technique which should work on both platforms is go to into match results, select a stage and select combined. Then just look for 0.00 times and those are the ones who don't have scores.