Neil Beverley Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I've just noticed that the USPSA versions of the Shotgun and Rifle rules are posted on the USPSA website. I'm not sure if these are the finished versions or interim versions produced for the Nationals. I can't comment on the changes because I haven't had a chance to read them properly yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Thanks for the head's up Neil! The file names say "final" in them so I would hazard a guess that they are the final rules...just in time for 3-Gun! Thanks to the USPSA BOD et al for all their hard work in getting these out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 kimel The reason I'm a little uneasy about these being the absolute final polished rules is because the "final" in the name comes (I think) from IPSC rather than USPSA and this happened once with the handgun rules. I don't think it's a big deal and I'm not expecting any further significant changes, if indeed any at all, but I didn't want to post here that the final version was ready only to crash and burn when someone who REALLY knows steps in to make a statement on behalf of the USPSA Board. Nevertheless it's good to see them up and about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 From the USPSA Member's page: Published RulesRhles (sic) which have been adopted on a regular or interim basis are pblished (sic) on our main rules page. From the USPSA Rules page: USPSA 14th Edition RulebookProduction Handgun List 2004 RifleRules 2004 Shotgun 2004 Tournament Rules Multigun Rules Addendum So, I think we can assume (ass+u+me?) that these rules are now in effect with the only new rules remaining to be enacted the 2004 Pistol rules. Of course I agree that until Mr. Voight or one of the USPSA BoD folks chimes in here and says so that any appearance of finality is tenuous at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 1 week b4 the nats...gonna be a run on those chamber safety flags at the local sporting goods stores around reno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 We've used chamber flags for 5 or 6 matches now and it's no big deal at all and it does add an additional tier of safety. We're using a variety of flags or other breach safe devices. Personally I've chosen to cut a frisbee (or similar) to a suitable shape. The outer rim has a good radius of curve and can be cut long enough to ensure that it "wedges" nicely in place in a 12ga. I found that some other flags fell out unless the bolt was lowered onto them. Finally with the frisbee I trimmed the plastic to leave a piece about 1 - 1.5 inches long from the flat top to achieve the external "flag". Much easier to do than explain. It works a treat and I get 4 flags from 1 frisbee. I'll try to post a picture later just in case anyone is interested. The shop bought flags aren't an expensive item. In a discussion many months ago (October?) this whole subject was discussed at length. For the record the devices for rifles which pass up through the magazine port and out through the ejection port and then clip/lock togetherare considered acceptable because they prevent the bolt from locking fully closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Neil, Does that mean that you'd consider a cable lock ---- akin to a bicycle lock --- to be an acceptable flag? The cable would pass through the loading port and the ejection port on a shotgun; through the magwell and the ejection port on an AR..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 Neil,Does that mean that you'd consider a cable lock ---- akin to a bicycle lock --- to be an acceptable flag? The cable would pass through the loading port and the ejection port on a shotgun; through the magwell and the ejection port on an AR..... Nik Yes! Bright colours would be best but anything like you describe is perfectly acceptable. The rule actually reads: 5.2.1.5 Competitors must use a chamber safety flag, or device, that is clearly visible externally to the gun, at all times when the shotgun is not in use (except whilst carrying out the activities permitted under Rule 2.4.1). It is not a requirement to use a device that fits inside the chamber, only a device that prevents the action from closing fully and/or prevents a round from being chambered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I posted somewhere else that you can make a minimal-cost chamber-flag out of a 8" piece of nylon weed-trimmer line and some orange tape. The bolt might be close to closing however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 When I cast my vote, I understood the rules to be finished, and final. Of course the Multi-Gun are provisional for a period of time (years) while they are being evaluated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Gary, Were you in Florida at the time? Was "Chad" there? (Sorry, couldn't resist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 We already ran a match under the new rifle rules for our PCC match. We used yellow nylon rope (approx. 6 inches in length) for flags and it worked like a champ. The competitors LOVED the idea of not having to case and uncase their long guns!!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 As promised please find below some images of chamber flags. The first one is excellent for rifles in particular and is available from the IPSC store and many gun shops (I'll ask BE if he sells them an add a link if he does). The next 2 images are my creation from a frisbee as discussed above. Any device that fulfils the function is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Vince you have an evil mind, I like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 us 5.2.1.4 allows for a shotgun to be in a case, or out of one, even if not reasonably verticle, provided you use a chamber flag. this was done to allow for the use of mobile carriers. my question is this: if the shotgun is in a case, can one retrieve the gun from the case (say in a mobile carrier) if not in a safety area, and place the gun in a rack? i figure the safety areas at the 3gun nats will be few & crowded, and getting gear in/out of cases will be a pain if it can only be done there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 outerlimits 5.2.1.2 provides for the gun to be carried without the need for a case of slip, as does US 5.2.1.4. There is no rule that stipulates that guns can only be removed from cases in safety areas or alternatively on the line under RO supervision. 5.2.1.5 states "at all times" (except when in a safety area). This includes in cases and slips. Initially there were one or two queries about why the flag is required while in a case but it is because guns can be (are permitted to be) removed from slips off the line and outside a safety area. The safety flag provides an extra measure of safety and provides a visual reference to this fact. It was discussed whether to stipulate that flags were to be only required for uncased shotguns but we didn't want shooters fiddling about trying to insert a flag every time they uncased their guns. The bottom line is: come to the match with the safety flag fitted and leave it fitted at ALL times at the match unless on the line or doing something to the gun in a safety area. Hopefully this reply more than answers your question and attempts to give some logic to the concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 neil...this provides clarity to me...hope it works that way next week in reno. meanwhile, i'll start hacking away on a frisbee...i like the idea of not having to go to the safe area to uncase longguns...especially since we'll be shooting multigun stages all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 outerlimits - Good luck at the match. Indeed good luck to all. It looks like a lot of fun and deserves to be a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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