Retread1911 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Merry Christmas All. We have been having trouble with our STI Trubor factory gun with Failure to Extract problems. I examined the extractor and it appears to be fine. Load Win Small Pistol Primer (Standard) Range Brass Montana Gold 124 JHP 1.155 OAL targeted some as short as 1.145 HS-6 7.8 gr 1425-1450 FPS ~176 PF The FTE started with the latest batch so I pulled several hundred and found some with heavy charges up around 7.9 to 8.0 range. I assume that the increased powder but thought I touch base with the group before loading up any more that might have the same problems. I also noticed that some of the OAL shrunk as much as .010 to 1.145. Does anyone see anything wrong with the load? I suspect the OAL variance is an issue? Others? Any reason to believe the extractor is the issue? Thanks George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) Hey Retread, Probably the extractor could be dirty? I don't use the powder you do but I shoot 9MAJOR in an STI. I load 7.2 Auto Comp but ran about 1000 through it that I loaded to 7.4 to get more gas going. It was smoking hot at around 180 PF and it extracted just fine. So I don't think the charge is the issue. As for oal shrinkage. That is never a good thing dude. The small amount you are talking about should not hurt much and it still should extract just fine. Edited to add: What headstamp shrunk in oal. I found FC and Speer/CCI/Blazer to have thinner case walls. These brands would move on me as well after crimped. I started using the EGW U-die and nothing moves at all now. Edited December 26, 2011 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 I found the extractor was dirty but had no cracks or burrs, nice and sharp edge. What I found when I took apart my seating die was some build up on the seat which can make for the shortened length. What OAL are you running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Ok guys I no longer think this is a reloading topic. I went back to the range today with 50 case sorted carefully mic'ed rounds and after 12 rounds two consistent Failures to extract. gun gets warm extractor starts malfunctioning. With this information I went back to the shop I bought the gun and they recommended calling STI which I have now done. I figure that this thread can now be closed. Those looking for a good 9mm major load I would start in the 7.4 range and 1.160 OAL range and work it up in your gun. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I had same problem with a TruBOR= turns out the problem was one of my mags - no fte's with the other two mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMartens Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 +1 on checking the mags. If it is just the big stick you might be ready for springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Range update: after talking to STI and getting some advice on their adjustment procedure. I performed the adjustment and went back to the range and found that while it was extracting better it was still not reliable. So we went from 20%failure to about 5%. As for mags the FTE have happened with all of them. Both the 140s and the 170. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Can we get pictures of the type of FTE you are experiencing? Might help pin point your causes of FTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 You really need to tell us exactly what happens when you say FTE. It takes near perfection tuning for a 9 Major gun with a standard C-more mount to eject properly. Factory extractors suck. Order an AFTEC, make sure you have an extended ejector and your problems will go away. Mag springs normally cause the gun to "fail-to-feed" correctly, not fail to extract correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbairborne Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I may have lived through a similar nightmare to yours. In my case, the gun was an STI Grandmaster in 9mm. I had frequent failures where the spent brass failed to eject out of the ejection port. Sometimes it was a stovepipe, and other times the ejected brass got caught between the breech face and the barrel hood causing a characteristic deformation of the case mouth. I substituted a Brazos tuned ejector and found some improvement, but not enough. I changed out the extractor for an Aftec and again found some improvement, but the gun was still not reliable enough for a match. It turns out that the ejected brass sometimes would bounce off the Allchin mount for my Cmore and go back into the breech. I changed out the Allchin for a 90 degree Cheely mount and all the problems went away. The gun is now 100% reliable. From your description of the problem it is not clear exactly what malf you are having. Perhaps if you described the problem in more detail - with pictures if possible, you might be able to get more educated suggestions for a fix from the Forum readers. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thanks I will get some pictures together before I send the gun back to STI. I the mean time let me try to describe a little more detail. When the FTE happens the empty casing is either completely left in the chamber or only extracted about 1/8 of the way. I haven't seen a stovepipe or any deformed cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I haven't seen it mentioned but what pound recoil and main spring are you using? When racking the slide, is everything nice and smooth? No rough spots while cycling the slide manually? From your description of a partially extracted case, it sounds like the slide isn't moving back all the way. I'm sure the spring you have installed should work. Just trying to cover all the bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I found the extractor was dirty but had no cracks . Retread, I'm guessing you're experienced with semi-autos (1911) so I don't mean to state the obvious, but your problem could be due to not cleaning the extractor tunnel and/or lack of lube on your gun. No offense, just covering the basics, good luck, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I haven't seen it mentioned but what pound recoil and main spring are you using? When racking the slide, is everything nice and smooth? No rough spots while cycling the slide manually? From your description of a partially extracted case, it sounds like the slide isn't moving back all the way. I'm sure the spring you have installed should work. Just trying to cover all the bases. Stock Trubor?, I believe they come with a recoilmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 I do have some experience with 1911's. The gun is clean and properly lubricated with light slide glide. The extractor channel is clean and free of obstructions. The stock recoil spring in the Trubor is a 12 lb. I have tried 11 and 13 lb wolf springs as well with similar results. Currently the 11 lb wolf spring is installed in the gun. Had the dealer not suggested sending it back to STI I would have likely ordered an AFTEC extractor by now but I like the idea of having factory support. If they turn it around quickly and are able to fix the problem I will leave the factory extractor in the gun. Thanks for all the ideas and please keep them coming. If someone has an idea I haven't tried before I send the gun back I will certainly try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I haven't seen it mentioned but what pound recoil and main spring are you using? When racking the slide, is everything nice and smooth? No rough spots while cycling the slide manually? From your description of a partially extracted case, it sounds like the slide isn't moving back all the way. I'm sure the spring you have installed should work. Just trying to cover all the bases. Stock Trubor?, I believe they come with a recoilmaster. whoops, my bad as they come with a guide rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I do have some experience with 1911's. The gun is clean and properly lubricated with light slide glide. The extractor channel is clean and free of obstructions. The stock recoil spring in the Trubor is a 12 lb. I have tried 11 and 13 lb wolf springs as well with similar results. Currently the 11 lb wolf spring is installed in the gun. Had the dealer not suggested sending it back to STI I would have likely ordered an AFTEC extractor by now but I like the idea of having factory support. If they turn it around quickly and are able to fix the problem I will leave the factory extractor in the gun. Thanks for all the ideas and please keep them coming. If someone has an idea I haven't tried before I send the gun back I will certainly try it. Factory extractors loose tension to quickly. The angle of extraction is very narrow with 9s using standard C-more mount. Understand about factory support, but you will be better off in the long run going to an AFTEC. Do you see a lot of dings underneath the mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 No dings on the mount and when the extraction / ejection works correct the casings come out at 3:00 around a yard from the gun STI is mailing me a new extractor this week so I will run a few more tests as soon as it comes in. Has anyone tried an AR extractor insert? Likely a bad idea but crazier things have worked. So the idea is to shove a piece of the insert into the extractor channel after the extractor is installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 New extractor arrived today from STI free of charge. I hope to make it to the range tuesday to test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi, I don't own an open gun yet. But a friend had the problem you have. Put of the sight that You can see where the cases land on the floor. If they land in front of you and your gun, the slide is too fast. Get a recoil spring in the 14 pounds range. The cases have to touch the floor behind you. The rest will be tuning of extractor and ejector. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I won a Trubor in 9mm a couple of years ago. I called one of the famous gunsmith's in the dealer section to send it to him to work his magic. He told me he would take the gun but to try a couple of things first and maybe save some $$. Sideways mount, and aftec. Gun runs like a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread1911 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Range report: The new extractor fixed the issue. I ran over 200 rounds through it last night without any failures. I am going to order an Aftec for the primary and keep the factory extractor for a backup. STI stood behind their product but the gun was down for almost a Month. Spare parts and a back up gun are really required to stay in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I can tell you EVERY SINGLE STI STOCK GUN I REAPET EVERY SINGLE ONE I have ever bought the extractor took a crap in under 3000 rounds. An aftec fixed my problem every time. Both my turbors and my aperio and edge all had to be chnged in around 3K. I have a cameron mount on my trubor and aftec and have never had an extraction issue. Edited February 4, 2012 by Mat Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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