JimmyB Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 OK, so here's the deal. We have the rules as they are now, love them or hate them, this thread isn't about rules because if you look at any of the other threads, it's the only thing we seem to talk about. Imagine that you are put in charge of the Bianchi Cup. What will you do to increase the attendance? Bear in mind that the NRA pays for 300 competitors to attend the match (to Green Valley, although I never actually knew this before). This year there was just over 150 scores posted, so assume everyone was paying $300 a piece and $45,000 was received in entry fees. Because the NRA is complaining about the cost of the match, this is the money that you have to bring in as a minimum. How will you bring new (and existing) shooters to the 'cup. Maybe if we can come up with some good ideas, they may even get implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 1) Get the Entry Form Out Early and a Lot of Them - First, about 6 months before the match, I'd fold up a copy of the entry form(s) and tuck them into Shooting Sports USA to get the offer out to NRA Membership. At the same time, I'd mail entry forms to every individual who has attended the Cup in the last 5 years. In that same envelope, I'd include 2 extra forms for "buddies". Lastly, I'd make the form available online (according to Rudy, this online thing will happen). 2) Advertise - Get articles about the Cup and Action Pistol published not only in Shooting Sports USA, but also in American Rifleman and Front Sight. I'm currently working on one of those. I'd also work a deal with USPSA to get the 'Cup listed in the Match Calender and a paid advertisement run in Front Sight. 3)Demonstration - I'd worth with the event coordinators of the USPSA Nationals, Camp Perry and the IDPA Nationals and set up demonstration matches. Show folks how easy it is to set up the matches, score and submit entries. 4)Communicate - Let the folks who already shoot the other practical pistol sports know that they can use the guns they already have in Action Pistol. Get information about the rules, cof's, etc. out and available to the public. Right now, the info available, from any source, about action pistol on-line is pathetic compared to IDPA, USPSA or IPSC. that is what I can think of right now...notice I didn't touch the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Not knowing all the new rules, an issue for me has been building a completely new pistol. While I'm not opposed to a new blaster, it becomes a chore when it is the only game that gun can be used for (basically I'd build the thing for the Cup and steel matches). However, with Gilmore being really proud of his shroud and not knowing too many other options for shrouds and mover bases (I've already called Warren Moore), it was hard to validate it. The one AP "match" I shot was practice with some friends when I lived in KC. I used my IPSC open gun and major loads. Shot a 1720 and cleaned the plates. I was thoroughly stoked. I think advertising and demonstrating that equipment (especially in Open division) is not the biggest factor would be helpful. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Steve Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 The day after the Q & A meeting I was talking to one of they genltlemen from the NRA and he asked how I got involved. I toold him. So, I hope he listened and spends advertising money wisely. I found the AP match director in the TSRA magazine. Called him got info and began shooting. So seems to me that advertising in State rifle associations mags should be done and also in dedicated shooting sports magazines. Such as any mags of newsletters put out by IPSC, USPSA(?), IDPA, ect.. Also the NRA's own website should list contact infor for each state. Dirty Steve, out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Advertising, both from the top and by grassroots, word-of-mouth efforts is the key. All of the other suggestions might help, but they're bandaids by comparison. The NRA web site's information available about NRA AP is PATHETIC. They could take a huge step forward simply by adding an HTML version of the rule book online, and some diagrams and descriptions of the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 The NRA web site's information available about NRA AP is PATHETIC. They could take a huge step forward simply by adding an HTML version of the rule book online, and some diagrams and descriptions of the matches. I'll shout out a HELLYEAH on that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentm Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 i think you need to consider the question is how to involve more shooters....not how to get more i mean in nz we are trying to up the number of shooters in AP matches too i think you need to have alot of clubs/ranges run events, even small events with 3 or four AP matches, at the least all you need is a range. the point is ispc does well because matches are run at clubs, alota clubs we need to get more matches run at more clubs then those there will say 'hey lets have a change today' bang new AP shooter, we dont need to expect shooters to suddenly be shooting AP every week but if once or twice a month they would probably feel comfortable shooting at a larger match... i think to acheive this those of us currently shooting AP need to get to other clubs that dont and run a match there...say have a friend at a club not shooting AP get him/her to help set one up 2cents worth Brentm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Dirty Steve said " Also the NRA's own website should list contact infor for each state." All 5 of them that shoot AP state matches? That is most of the problem right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 All 5 of them that shoot AP state matches?That is most of the problem right there. If it isn't shot in your state, it is easy to change that! Seriously, if you dont' have a mover (which you don't even need to hold a match), an Action Pistol match has to be one of the easiest set up matches for MD's there has ever been. Targets, target stands, Barricades and Plate Racks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 How to increase attendance? Hmmmm.......... I know! I know! I live in Louisville, Kentucky. Where and when is the closest match ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 I think they could make room for you at the Circleville, OH match. http://home.columbus.rr.com/jmaass/pcsiipsc.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Dale ... we have a monthly match with the four Bianchi Cup events a little over an hour north of Indianapolis on I-65. http://www.wvrpc.org That's a long haul for you, though. Maybe if you're ever up here for another reason, you might be able to hit a match too. If someone could be found to spearhead the effort, the Bluegrass club at Wilmore (near Lexington for those of you not in Kentucky) seems like a good prospect. They have room to host a small world war and probably have enough $$$ that setting up an NRA AP-capable set of ranges would be no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Dale ... we have a monthly match with the four Bianchi Cup events a little over an hour north of Indianapolis on I-65.http://www.wvrpc.org That's a long haul for you, though. Maybe if you're ever up here for another reason, you might be able to hit a match too. If someone could be found to spearhead the effort, the Bluegrass club at Wilmore (near Lexington for those of you not in Kentucky) seems like a good prospect. They have room to host a small world war and probably have enough $$$ that setting up an NRA AP-capable set of ranges would be no problem. Pact-Man, Gun Geek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 I think they could make room for you at the Circleville, OH match.http://home.columbus.rr.com/jmaass/pcsiipsc.htm I'm starting a steel match the 4th Saturday, but thanks for the invite. I will make a trip up to test drive the C6W though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 We had an active Action Pistol club here for almost 8 years. I worked it...helped run it and provided financial support as a target sponsor for State and Regional Championships. It died because of a lack of shooter participation. IPSC is STRONG in these here parts and not much will dent that. I suppose that is the case in more than one locality. Back to the question at hand..."how to increase participation". First off, the Cup is TOO expensive. Last Cup I went to cost $250.00 and there were over 275 competitors. I thought it was TOO expensive then. NRA needs to find a way to increase participation so they can lower the entry fees. How do you do this? By forging an alliance with USPSA. USPSA and the NRA Action Pistol program are a perfect fit especially in growth areas such as metallic sight and stock gun classes. Local clubs could run an NRA Action stage as part (or as an extra "event") in their local match program where Action shooters can earn an NRA classification and USPSA shooters not exposed to the Action Pistol experience can participate, thereby possibly growing the ranks of potential Action Pistol competitors. It would be a "no-brainer" to set up the Practical, Barricade or Falling Plate event in a spare bay at the next USPSA club match and run it as a "side event". When I was involved in AP the prevailing sentiment was that you needed a 3000 dollar speciality gun to be competitive. That is no longer the case especially with TGO shooting a 1905 with iron sights. Simply put, it would require the NRA to "reach out" and contact USPSA or for USPSA to contact the NRA and offer this type of proposal...work out the financial and logistical details and then "merge" the two sports in such a fashion that would allow both entities to be the best they could be without losing what makes each unique. If it were up to me, I would like to see USPSA buy the rights to the Cup, add it to the National Championship schedule and administer the Action Pistol program in the same professional manner as the USPSA program. That may be asking a great deal at this point but it would assure the survival of Action Pistol and surely grow the number of U.S. based competitors at the Cup. If this isn't possible, I would like to see a "working arrangement" between the two organizations. NRA could learn a great deal on how to administer a shooting program from USPSA. My new "metallic sight" Action Pistol blaster will be done by the end of the year. It would be GREAT to be able to shoot it along with my Limited Division gun at the next "combined" NRA/USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Steve Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 What I ment was the NRA should list contact info for all the AP match directors. If there are only five. Gentlemen we have work to do. If anyone wans to start a club in your state and you are currently involved please go out of your way to teach them what needs to be done. Our club is down to so few members we can hardly keep up with repair bills. We replaced 12 plates and the bill was 420. When you only have $1900 thats a big chuck of your funds. We have been loosing on each State & Regional match we put on even after switching to the cheapest plaques we can find to hand out. With shirts and hats costing around $800. Our expeses total about $1300. We plan for 20 shooters and get about 12. We used to plan for 30 and get about 17. So we would lose about $100-125 or more each match. Attendance must grow or we will die off. Well the matches will die but we will continue to shoot. Small clubs can not afford many of these losses. We off set it each year by hosting a Glock match and the club gets a certificate for a gun and we draw for it. The winner pays the club $350 for the gun/certificate. If this info can help any club remember we thought of it first. Dirty Steve, Tired and off to bed, Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Steve As far as Plaques and shirts go I can help you out with those, and reduce your Costs, just let me know what you want and we can get it organized, and save you dollars. GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Does anyone have a copy of the 1992 Bianchi results? GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Chuck D, Your Idea is Great, but you forgot 1 problem: USPSA does not want to work with anybody but USPSA as does NRA, Each one of them want to be a separate entety( or so it seems) from any one else. Hope things get better before they get worse. Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Steve Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Grant, sorry I never replied back to you. But you do our shirts already. Damn nice stuff too. You have never let us down on your product or the workmanship. The problem lies with the guy who does the ordering for us. He was ordering far more than we needed. Luckily I got that straightened out for this years match. Dirty Steve, Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 The lack of promotion for Action shooting in general, and the Cup specifically can be traced in part back to the Competition Division's lack of interest. I've said for some time that Mr. Gilchrist has no interest in our sport, and he helps prove my point in the latest issue of SSUSA. In the very first sentence of his column, he lets us know that he doesn't even know the name of the city where the Cup is held!!!!!! As he so aptly said in one of his columns last year about the squeaky wheel getting replaced....."enough said"! Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Where is Columbus, Mo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 When can I join "ICASE" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmbeckwith Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Hi all: Just a hint! When I first was invited I received my entry because I had attained a mater card in PPC. At that time it was a by invitation event only. Only open to master class shooters from all NRA Shooting divisions. Why couldn't this type of invitation be started and sent to all competitors in Bullseye, IPSC, IDPA, PPC, any NRA shooting sport. With all the different divisions now most of the handguns would fit somewhere! Hi Grant, sorry I missed you at the Cup, could you send me an order for for some shirts from this year. I wear your stuff all the time! Thanks ! Kim M. Beckwith Zero Ammunition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretch Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 We completed our 1st Regional June 25th and it will not be our last! We made the typical 1st run mistakes ... but these will be corrected with the attitude and skill of our club members. We want to make AP work here in Berrien Springs, MI. We expected a few more shooters for the efforts though but were pleased with the support Kevin, Tony, Leroy, Dave, Bob, Tom, Gary, Deb and others gave us. I have been shooting all my life ... and AP is new - but it seems to me if you love the sport as much as you all say you do ... then support it! Attend regional, state and local matches and bring someone or two with you. Help encourage clubs to host the matches. We're committed at Berrien County Sportsman's Club to make this work .. how about helping us by attending next year. We plan to host a regional on Saturday and the State on Sunday. Send your email addresses and I personally will send an invitation to the party. Stretch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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