NRA Action Pistol Stages

[BigDave]

The start position is hands above shoulders for all stages except the Barricade. The start signal is a buzzer, or turning target, on all stages except the Mover. 192 shots / 192 X's possible for a maximum score of 1920/192X.

Practical

2 NRA D-1 (aka Tombstone) targets, 1ft apart, start with hand in the surrender postion, each string timed seperately, 48 shots total, 480pts/48 x possible.

10 yds:

1 shot each target, 3 seconds

2 shots each target, 4 seconds

3 shots each target, weak hand only, 8 seconds

15 yds:

1 shot each target, 4 seconds

2 shots each target, 5 seconds

3 shots each target, 6 seconds

replace targets (12 shots per target)

25 yds:

1 shot each target, 5 seconds

2 shots each target, 6 seconds

3 shots each target, 7 seconds

50 yds:

1 shot each target, 7 seconds (prone permitted)

2 shots each target, 10 seconds (prone permitted)

3 shots each target, 15 seconds (prone permitted)

Falling Plates

Six 8" plates (standard plate rack). Two strings at each distance. 48 shots total. Plate must fall to score. 1 plate = 10 points and 1x

10 yds: 6 seconds

15 yds: 7 seconds

20 yds: 8 seconds

25 yds: 9 seconds

Moving Target (modified)

4 NRA D-1 (Tombstone) moving 10 feet per second, visible for 6 seconds. 48 shots total. 480 points/ 48x possible. Draw when target is visible. One target per distance (12 shots per target)

10 yds & 15 yds: 6 shots per pass, 2 passes each distance (left, then right)

20 yds & 25 yds: 3 shots per pass, 4 passes each distance (left, right, left, right)

Barricade

2 NRA D-1 (Tombstone) targets. 48 shots total. 480 points / 48 x's possible. Barricades are 2 ft wide, 6 ft tall. Shooting boxes behind barricade are 2 ft wide, 3 ft long. Start with hands flat against the barricade.

10 yds: 6 shots from either side of the barricade, 5 seconds. Repeat on opposite side.

15 yds: 6 shots from either side of the barricade, 6 seconds. Repeat on opposite side.

install new targets (12 shots per target)

25 yds: 6 shots from either side of the barricade, 7 seconds. Repeat on opposite side.

35 yds: 6 shots from either side of the barricade, 8 seconds. Repeat on opposite side.

[driver8M3]

BD,

excellent description. thanks! looks like a real interesting (and challenging) match!

[BigDave]

192 lessons in trigger control

If you have any other questions, be sure to ask. Our host here has only won the thing twice. Only.

[rhino]

I'm going to win the Regional Match in Indiana this fall in metallic sights.

Thanks for the descriptions, Dave!

[driver8M3]

i know the D1 targets from shooting GSSF. how are they scored in the Cup?

[Kimberkid]

driver,

the smallest inner ring is 10 points and 1 X, the next bigger ring is 10 points, next bigger ring is 8 points, anything else showing on the target is 5 points. I believe ICORE uses the same values if you are familiar with that. GSSF i dont know. Hope that helps.

BTW, Big Dave is my new "Hero for Today". He is a mad nice dude and deserves serious thanks for the multi-daily updates while at the Cup. Hope it was worth the trip for you Dave, I was with you in spirit.

[BigDave]

I'm going to win the Regional Match in Indiana this fall in metallic sights.

Oh no you didn't. Its on, like Donkey Kong!!!

KK - dude, it was awsome, I can't wait to go back. thanks.

[rhino]

The next time I shoot a good score on the barricades, I'm going to say, "You been served!"

Dave, are you going to post descriptions of the other matches too?

[Flexmoney]

We shoot "Los Alimitos" instead of the "Practical"...as we can't go to 50y on our pistol ranges.

I don't have the description handy...I'll post it later.

[SRT Driver]

Big Dave,

The targets for the Practical are 3ft apart edge to edge. The plates are 1 ft apart.

Any additional nominations for Big Dave as "contributor of the month?"

[gm iprod]

SRT what was your score at the Cup?????

And yes a big thanks is due Dave for his effort for all his posts, it keeps us that are way down here in the antipodes up to date.

More practice for me and I will see you next year.

[KentG]

You know you suck at action pistol when you add UP your points instead of counting points missed. I hope to make at least one this summer for no other reason than it costs less than hiring a dominatrix to humiliate you.

[BigDave]

Rhino - I'm not going to post the other all of the other 12 (there are 16 total). I'll get the Speedload Challenge up here at some point. Maybe another. The first four are from memory, finally.

SRT - thanks on the spacing, I was going from memory, I should have looked at the new rule book I just bought.

tnek - you need to round up more of those Wildcat IDPA boys and bring em...

[SRT Driver]

GM,

Unfortunately, I had to make a choice between the USPSA Nats and Bianchi. Available funds and job situation did not allow both this year.

Was able to make it to Columbia for the meeting Thurs night. Start practicing Barricade without touching it. That's next!!!! Oh well, the shroud comes off!

It seemed the common thread was that Open pistols are too expensive. The "equipment race must end"!!!!! And no more relying on a "crutch" like hanging on the barricade or going prone. Everyone has to stand up "like men" and bang away. And the best shooters will rise to the top.

More big name PPC shooters were there. The board's method is too make Bianchi less specialized to allow more participation.

[driver8M3]

the smallest inner ring is 10 points and 1 X, the next bigger ring is 10 points, next bigger ring is 8 points, anything else showing on the target is 5 points. I believe ICORE uses the same values if you are familiar with that. GSSF i dont know. Hope that helps.

thanks.

for the record, GSSF scores are time only. no penalty time is added for the 2 inner rings, 2 seconds is added for the 3rd ring, 5 seconds is added for all other hits on the target, and 10 seconds is added if you miss entirely.

[Kimberkid]

SRT,

I agree, Big Dave is the smooth pimpin straight thuggin' contributor of the month. I cant wait til I can start tearing all the equipment off my gun and sit there at look at the piles of money and time that went into that gun now wasted. I think its just super what the NRA is doing to promote the sport. Who do you think is gonna win the new "waterpistol" class at the Cup next year? or how about we just give up shooting all together, and sit around playing "Duck Hunt" and eating Cheetos all day. I got the extra contoller!!

[rhino]

The board's method is too make Bianchi less specialized to allow more participation.

I've discussed this with BigDave several times, but it seems to me that NRA is missing the boat if they want more participation. The problem is that NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT NRA Action Pistol.

They can make the rules as newbie friendly as they like, but if people don't know about the sport, it's not going to do anything but irritate the people who already shoot it.

IN GENERAL, people who participate exclusively in the NRA shooting sports do a horrible job of promoting their events by word of mouth too. Until BigDave started asking me to shoot NRA Action Pistol with him, no participant in that sport had ever even suggested I try it, much less invited me to a match. Bullseye shooters are the same. I have encountered several people who shoot bullseye on a regular basis, but none have ever suggested to me or anyone else I know that they try a match or two.

Contrast that to USPSA and IDPA shooters. Some of them are like crack dealers trying to get new people to come to their matches. "The first taste is free!" That's a very good thing. I think both organizations could advertise far more effectively, but the "grass roots" promotion of both games is lightyears ahead of the people who only shoot in NRA-sanctioned events.

[SRT Driver]

Rhino,

Agreed. And that was brought up at the meeting.

It is difficult to find ranges that support the 4 COF's that comprise at the 'Cup. There are other COF's that are considered "Action Pistol" but the Barricade, Mover, Plates and Practical are the 'Cup.

Exposure and availabilty of support for local clubs are the solutions.

But there is a prevailing attitude that the 'Cup is the "yuppie national championship" and the rest of us are just red necks who can't hit anything or don't have the skill or attention span to shoot accurately.

Since Indy is running as we speak, the difference between IRL and NASCAR is appropriate.

[rhino]

But there is a prevailing attitude that the 'Cup is the "yuppie national championship" and the rest of us are just red necks who can't hit anything or don't have the skill or attention span to shoot accurately.

Since Indy is running as we speak, the difference between IRL and NASCAR is appropriate.

Before I tried it, everything I read, heard, and saw about NRA Action Pistol and the Bianchi Cup said to me one thing: "BORING!"

Since I've done it three times now, I have completely changed my opinion. Once you actually DO it, it's a lot of fun. And the benefits to one's accuracy can't be overestimated ... at risk of invoking BigDave's name too many times in one day, I agree with him ... NRA Action Pistol can only help your USPSA/IPSC or IDPA shooting.

I'd never heard about the attitudes you mention, but that could be because my exposure to the game is so limited. I can see how you reached the conclusion, though.

[BigDave]

The board's method is too make Bianchi less specialized to allow more participation.

I've discussed this with BigDave several times, but it seems to me that NRA is missing the boat if they want more participation. The problem is that NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT NRA Action Pistol.

I agree with that statement, but would go on to say that nearly every person involved with practical shooting knows about the Bianchi Cup and the four main events. Every year, American Handgunner runs a spread on the thing and has for some time. American Shooter used to dedicate an entire broadcast to the event. You say the names Doug Koenig, Mickey Fowler and Bruce Piatt and the first thing that comes to my mind is Bianchi Cup (although they are involved with many other things).

The problem with stirring involvement, interest and participation in NRA Action Pistol in general is that no one knows where to go to learn more about the sport, where matches are shot and what the COF's are. SRT brought up a very good point at the meeting that the Bianchi Cup/NRA Action Pistol Championship existed before there was club level matches. The cart quite literally came before the horse in this case. Very basically, people don't know how to get involved. More or less, unless you are a (1) NRA Member who (2) subscribes to Shooting Sports USA or are (3) a member of a gun club who shoots NRA AP, you likely don't know about it. I found out about the sport when the guy who runs the local matches showed up to shoot a USPSA match and we got to talking.

Yes, the NRA does need to improve the exposure of the sport at the club/state/regional level to increase interest and participation. But, for those of you who know about and shoot the sport, what have you done to attract new shooters? I think this will be a case where if the candle is lit on both ends, we'll get to the middle much faster. If the NRA and the clubs who shoot these matches will both work to spark participation, the end result will be the rebirth of a great shooting sport.

[rhino]

what have you done to attract new shooters?

That's a main part of what I was saying. The shooters don't do much to grow the sport.

[SRT Driver]

In my neck of the woods (the midwest), there are two clubs that shoot regular AP matches. All of those that keep these clubs running bust their butts to keep the program alive against declining participation.

Several shooters from my club have gone and shot a match or two but usually never come back. AP is not easy and is becoming more difficult to "put up a number." It takes time, facilities, and dedication which many of us do not have the luxury of.

This is a difficult sport. Many become discouraged early on then migrate to another sport which they feel is easier or in closer proximity. Keep in mind that the original intent of the match was to crown a "best of the best." Originally, $50 k was put up to the first shooter to break 1900, if memory serves. Now 1920's are the norm. The problem was solved. Now there is a new problem.

Maybe AP is doomed to wide appeal by it's nature. It is a rigid sport. It is a finite sport. It is an excellent sport to test a wide range of shooting ability. The challenge is enough to keep a dedicated competitor interested. The dedication of hard core competitors can only go so far, however.

But it's those qualities that may bring about AP's untimate demise. How do we sell it? For what it is. Is changing the rules the answer; time will tell. How do we help it grow? That is the new challange.

[rhino]

I think one thing we could do is stress some of the positive as compared to the other "action" shooting sports.

round count ... you get to shoot a LOT at each club level match as compared to most monthly USPSA or IDPA matches

accuracy, but with some time restrictions ... a lot of USPSA shooters are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the lack of accuracy challenges in their local and regional matches. They are ideal candidates for NRA Action Pistol ... I'm one of them! I'm not an exceptionally accurate shooter, but I like the challenge.

no movement ... I know many USPSA and IDPA shooters enjoy the run'n'gun almost exclusively, but a lot like to stand and shoot as well. I love field courses even though I suck at them, but in the stand and shoot world of NRA AP, I am on equal ground with just about everyone and the only difference is skill level.

Maybe we should also try to reach more disabled shooters, as NRA AP might be a very workable even for people who can't really handle the more physical nature of USPSA and IDPA. I'll bet it would be a lot easier to get grant money for AP-related range improvements if the proprosal includes provisions for disabled shooters such as having some of the bays paved/black topped.

I see young people at USPSA and IDPA matches all the time. BigDave is the youngest NRA AP shooter I've ever met. The future is in the youth!

Maybe some NRA AP clubs could find a nearby USPSA club and arrange some sort of interclub event or competition. You could visit each others' clubs on invitation and shoot each others' games to see how the other side lives.

[BigDave]

Maybe some NRA AP clubs could find a nearby USPSA club and arrange some sort of interclub event or competition. You could visit each others' clubs on invitation and shoot each others' games to see how the other side lives.

Rhino - most, if not all of the AP crowd from Wildcat has shot other disciplines at Atlanta or in Northern Illinois. They attend steel, USPSA, IDPA and Pin matches. I can't think of a single shooter who is an AP only competitor. What we need to do is get some of the people we know who haven't shot AP up north. The AP crowd knows and visits the other side, its our crowd that needs to get out and stretch their legs, so to speak.

Me thinks I/we need to have a conversation witih Steve B and Steve N and find a free weekend day soon, buy some D-1's and have a match with a few stages at Atlanta. Think about it, no one shot steel matches or IDPA in central Indiana till someone had a place and hosted the match. Host it, and they will come.

SRT - great post, man

I'm starting a poll...

[Kimberkid]

Rhino,

Man, every time i read a post by you i gain a bit more respect for you. I am most glad to see that you enjoy it so much, and hopefully we can all do our part to keep it rolling. As for the youth, I shot my first AP match when I was 17, first Cup at 18. Wes also shot as a junior and still does, I think he is 21.

I do think that you hit the nail on the head as far as the NRA pushing the sport. I have heard other say the NRA views AP as the "red-headed stepchild", I dont know if I agree with that or not, but it is obvious that it is up to a lot of us to keep it going.

Regardless of any rule changes or other BS that goes down, the game is beautiful. The game, in its spirit, is what started my life as a shooter and i am therefore forever indebted to it. When the Cup is no more and every AP range is closed down, I'll still be shooting plates in my backyard. Hopefully you, SRT and Big Dave will still wanna shoot with me.

p.s. as for who is gonna win Metallic sight in the fall, my money is on the middle aged guy that is legally blind. SRT? Big Dave? know who I'm talkin about?