Jumbo30 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't know what this type of feed jam is called, but I'll try to describe it. EAA Witness, Small frame steel, New .40 S&W conversion, Factory Win JHP. The bullet moves up the feed ramp and then hits the top of the barrel and can't make the turn, down into the barrel? The feed ramp has been polished and the lip of the mag has been opened up (the round used to just go straight into the feed ramp). Is this because of the JHP? Would the updated mag release fix it? I searched the forums and found things on "nose dives" and magazine problems but nothing on this. I hope it's something stupid or simple. Yes I am a newbie to all this. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi Jumbo, and welcome! Does the gun do this with all your mags or just one? I think mags lead to a lot of feeding issues that get overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo30 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi Jumbo, and welcome! Does the gun do this with all your mags or just one? I think mags lead to a lot of feeding issues that get overlooked. Hi Kevin. They are new mags that came with the conversion. They are the "California" models with the plastic bottom. My 9mm mags have a metal bottom, so I don't know if these are cheap versions or not. Here's a pic of the jam: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 extractor tension? burr on the breech ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 this looks very similiar to the problem I had. It was caused by a combination of factors...the breach face needed polishing, and the extractor tension was too strong. I also polished the front to bottom edge of the extractor and the inside rim of the extractor so the brass move easier as it loaded into the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SN13 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I had the same type of issue with my CZSP01 in 9mm. The Remington UMC rounds were shorter than the Winchester White box i normally used, and they would jam. You may need to find a brand of ammo that's a tad bit longer. that's my only experience with CZ and this type of jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I get that from time to time when I'm lazy and don't clean the extractor and a whole bunch of gun power residue has built up. The "tap" part of a "tap-rack" quickly fixes the problem (and adds 1 second to my time ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo30 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Thanks guys. I'll try and polish the breach face and the bottom edge of the breach as well. The parts look like they can stand some work. So I guess it has nothing to do with the old version mag release? Thanks. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 A worn out old version of the mag release will seat the magazine lower than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo30 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) It looks like the shell is having a hard time sliding under the extractor. Is it normal that an out-of-the-box kit need this much work? I'll look at longer ammo too. I do think that FMJ would probably work better regardless. Thanks everyone. Jon Edited November 18, 2011 by Jumbo30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Unlike 1911's where there is a lot of extractor spring tuning, for the CZ clones, the tuning, in the rare case that it is needed, happens on the depth of the notch, and the shape/length of the "claw". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo30 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Okay, just to wrap it up... The extractor was stiff. Removed it and there was a big glob of rust around the spring. I guess I'll know better now that "new" probably has been sitting around for a while and to take it all apart even though it's all nice and lubed up on the outside. All clean. I polished up the extractor and breach. Can't wait to shoot it. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Okay, just to wrap it up... The extractor was stiff. Removed it and there was a big glob of rust around the spring. I guess I'll know better now that "new" probably has been sitting around for a while and to take it all apart even though it's all nice and lubed up on the outside. All clean. I polished up the extractor and breach. Can't wait to shoot it. Thanks all. While you are at it, check your firing pin and firing pin spring as well. Part of the extractor channel intrudes into the firing pin channel. If you got rust in one place, it may be present elsewhere nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo30 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 I shot it today. Still had feed issues with the JHP. Not really bad like it was. Hitting the back of the slide finished it off. Bought a box of FMJ at the range and those feed well... 1 misfeed in 40 rounds. The bullet just went straight into the feed ramp. Hit the back of the slide and it went in. I switched back to the JHP and the rounds fed better. Only a few miss feeds per 10 rounds. It's new so maybe it's getting broken it? Got home and noticed a lot of brass flakes and a brass color on the "face" of the extractor. I guess the "color" on the extractor is from hitting the slide closed. I worked on the extractor a bit more... worked on the front of the slide a bit too because it felt like it could be sticking a bit when the slide was all the way back. Also ordered the updated mag release and some mags from Henning. Hopefully that'll fix feed issues once and for all. Anyway, the gun shot great! All rounds in the black @ 15 yards and the recoil wasn't harsh at all. Once this is fixed I'll graduate to the 25 yard range! Skydiver, I pulled out the firing pin and yup, there was rust. Cleaned it all out as obsessively as I could. Haven't worked up the nerve to disassemble the gun beyond that. I'll have to watch Henning's video a few more times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) sounds like too much tension again....just tapping the back of the slide to close the slide sounds exactly like what I had to do (Look at the head of Hennings extractor in the picture about tuning for rimless...he has done some work to it. ) The casing should not be a labor to slide up under the extractor. How does the slide ride in the frame with the barrel and guide rod removed? It should slide freely. Complete guns are usually checked for fitting at the factory..where as the kits are not. I recently had to fit my .38 super slide to my .40 frame. Edited November 20, 2011 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 You can also polish and round the bottom edge of the extractor so it can slide into the extraction groove easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 sounds like too much tension again....just tapping the back of the slide to close the slide sounds exactly like what I had to do (Look at the head of Hennings extractor in the picture about tuning for rimless...he has done some work to it. ) The casing should not be a labor to slide up under the extractor. How does the slide ride in the frame with the barrel and guide rod removed? It should slide freely. Complete guns are usually checked for fitting at the factory..where as the kits are not. I recently had to fit my .38 super slide to my .40 frame. This is a VERY good point. The best way to check frame to slide fit is to take out the barrel and guide rod from the slide, then take out the trigger/trigger bar, sear cage and hammer from the frame. Taking out all of these parts will ensure that the only friction between the slide and frame will be the quality of the fit of the rails to one another. With the dissassembled frame and slide slip the slide onto the frame and see if it slides friction free through the normal travel of the slide would have as the gun would cycle after a shot. If there is ANY friction or binding felt when testing it this way you need to work on the rails to make sure that they are fit to one another well. I have gotten replacement uppers from EAA that went on and fit perfectly without needing any tuning. But these are rare. Some amount of rail fitting is needed to produce smooth and friction free function most of the time when you get a replacement upper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo30 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 Finally got out to shoot the gun today. Yeh Mo, Nealio and all that called it, it's extractor work that fixed it... zero misfeeds. JHP, BJHP, FMJ. FYI, I installed the updated mag release (my gun's a steel small frame) and it positioned the mags way too high (maybe .125") I looked around and saw that there are mags with a "stepped" lip and maybe those clear the slide but those are for the large frame(?). Anyway, ground down the top edge of the release to lower the mag and it works great. I guess nothing is plug and play? Anyway, a funny thing with this conversion is sometimes when I load a mag when the slide is locked open, the slide releases and chambers a round. Startled me the first time that happened... I think maybe the mag is hitting the slide release? Anyway, thanks for the advice. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 When you seat a mag some times it jars the slide enough to allow the slide lock to slip off the notch in the slide. If you don't want this to happen you can reshape the slide lock lever and slide notch so they have a more secure engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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