Skyhawk Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well I finally received this mold and managed to cast a few hundred bullets yesterday with it. They are dropping consistently in the 154 to 156 grain range with water quenched WW alloy, with a near exact .357" diameter. All I need to do is make minor power factor with a bit of safety margin - around 130 PF (between 835 to 840 fps) . The round will be used in IPSC Production in a CZ Shadow and CZ 75B. I have Lyman's 49th where they list the 356637 Mold specifically (last 9mm table) and a OAL of only 1.058" is specified. That seems terribly short to me for a 155 grain bullet squeezed into a 9mm case... but anyway... they don't mention any of the powders I currently have which are Unique, 231, and N320. Would using a very fast powder like N320 be dangerous or unlikely to give me the velocity I'm looking for without too much pressure? 49th lists 3.4 grains of N340 - a much slower powder. The manual also lists velocities for minimum loads that all exceed the PF I'm looking for too, even if I used one of the listed powders. Any load suggestions for this bullet? The closest guess I've come to a starting load to chrono is 3.0 grains of 231. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseman Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I am researching for 147 lead loads myself. I tried some vv n320 at 1.160 today 3.3 and 3.5. Both made minor at about 131PF. BUT I thought recoil too excessive for both. Using Missouri Bullet Co. 147s. I also tried some 125's LRN and learned why most 9mm bullets are tapered.I had to go to 1.122 to even get them to chamber. They were super light recoiling with 3.5 but also did not make minor at 119PF. Loading that short I don't think I have room for more 32O. Using a MP 4.25 with an 11 pound spring which surprisingly seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Well I finally received this mold and managed to cast a few hundred bullets yesterday with it. They are dropping consistently in the 154 to 156 grain range with water quenched WW alloy, with a near exact .357" diameter. All I need to do is make minor power factor with a bit of safety margin - around 130 PF (between 835 to 840 fps) . The round will be used in IPSC Production in a CZ Shadow and CZ 75B. I have Lyman's 49th where they list the 356637 Mold specifically (last 9mm table) and a OAL of only 1.058" is specified. That seems terribly short to me for a 155 grain bullet squeezed into a 9mm case... but anyway... they don't mention any of the powders I currently have which are Unique, 231, and N320. Would using a very fast powder like N320 be dangerous or unlikely to give me the velocity I'm looking for without too much pressure? 49th lists 3.4 grains of N340 - a much slower powder. The manual also lists velocities for minimum loads that all exceed the PF I'm looking for too, even if I used one of the listed powders. Any load suggestions for this bullet? The closest guess I've come to a starting load to chrono is 3.0 grains of 231. Thanks! My load for the same mold at 158gr's (my lead must be softer) is..... 1.075"-1.080" OAL, 3.2 Grs Solo 1000. 1.083 is the practical max for my KKM barrel. I use a .357 sizing die that seems to size them to .3565". That load makes 130ish PF. Never less then 129PF but Solo needs to be chrono'd Edited October 25, 2011 by 98sr20ve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawk Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Thanks guys, 98sr20ve: Sadly Solo 1000 isn't readily available in my local (understatement). By speed, what other powder might it be compared to? horseman: We use 3.5ish grains of N320 with plated 147 Frontier bullets in Shadows and get close to 135 PF, and still find them pretty soft shooting. It's a favorite Production IPSC load around here. I'm looking for a similar feeling load in cast lead. It takes me 3.8 gr of N320 with the Lee TL356-124-TC to reach similar PF, and it feels like my gun may blow up at any moment with that load. I stopped using that combination. Edited October 25, 2011 by Skyhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 If you are going to buy a different powder than you listed having, try WST. Good for lead and soft shooting. Available and reasonably priced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67 LS1 Camaro Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 It takes me 3.8 gr of N320 with the Lee TL356-124-TC to reach similar PF, and it feels like my gun may blow up at any moment with that load. I stopped using that combination. That's weird... I use that exact load, with an OAL 1.080" ...through my G17 with a KKM... Nice recoil. Slightly softer than a 124 MG CMJ with 4.2gr N320 at the same PF. Does not work in a G34. Keyholes.Don't know why but a slightly slower powder like W231 does the fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawk Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 That's weird... I use that exact load, with an OAL 1.080" ...through my G17 with a KKM... Nice recoil. Slightly softer than a 124 MG CMJ with 4.2gr N320 at the same PF. Does not work in a G34. Keyholes.Don't know why but a slightly slower powder like W231 does the fix. That reminds me! I forgot to mention I was getting the occasional keyholes with that load and bullet too - perhaps one per 30. And that was with the bullets put through the same .357 sizer. I think it has something to do with the lack of driving surface to engage the grooves in the CZ along with the fast groove twist rate and relatively high velocity to safely make PF with that weight. I was also getting a tiny bit of leading, but more so when I was first sizing them to .356". Needless to say, that bullet didn't work for me. This is why my IPSC instructor suggested to try a heavier cast bullet like the Lyman 356637 to improve accuracy, prevent key-holing, and to experience a softer perceived recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z Sr Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Now you have me interested, I'll be trying some over the next week for my wife's (yes married last week during a ZSA pistol match !!) M&P 9MM PRO she got as a weeding gift. Will post info as I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 From the Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook: For Lyman #356637, OAL 1.058" Unique 3.2gr 810fps 25,600 CUP Unique 3.8gr 956fps 31,800 CUP They don't list N320 or 231 but have several other powders listed. Unique has always been a popular choice for cast bullets in many cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I use clays loaded out to 1.15. Clays is faster than N320. N320 and lead gives off a lot of white smoke. Clays smokes less than 320 with lead. From the Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook: For Lyman #356637, OAL 1.058" Unique 3.2gr 810fps 25,600 CUP Unique 3.8gr 956fps 31,800 CUP They don't list N320 or 231 but have several other powders listed. Unique has always been a popular choice for cast bullets in many cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawk Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) From the Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook: For Lyman #356637, OAL 1.058" Unique 3.2gr 810fps 25,600 CUP Unique 3.8gr 956fps 31,800 CUP They don't list N320 or 231 but have several other powders listed. Unique has always been a popular choice for cast bullets in many cartridges. Oh wow, thanks ebg3! Those pressures look nice and low for that heavy a bullet. I find it surprising that all the Lyman books list the OAL at 1.058" when I've fitted the rounds to 1.100 that still readily drop free from my Shadow's (removed) barrel. And CZs have such a short, picky chamber that normally I'm forced to loading shorter than they call for. It should be interesting to see what a bit slower powder does with this heavy bullet. Speaking of which, why is it that many folks in IPSC use comparatively fast powders with heavy bullets? It sounds counter-intuitive to me. Edited October 26, 2011 by Skyhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z Sr Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I use clays loaded out to 1.15. Clays is faster than N320. N320 and lead gives off a lot of white smoke. Clays smokes less than 320 with lead. From the Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook: For Lyman #356637, OAL 1.058" Unique 3.2gr 810fps 25,600 CUP Unique 3.8gr 956fps 31,800 CUP They don't list N320 or 231 but have several other powders listed. Unique has always been a popular choice for cast bullets in many cartridges. What charge of Clays are you using? I was thinking of Clays as I have alot of it on hand, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 2.9 grains at 1.15 OAL. The only warning is that it tumbles in some guns. But no pressure signs in anything. What charge of Clays are you using? I was thinking of Clays as I have alot of it on hand, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Speaking of which, why is it that many folks in IPSC use comparatively fast powders with heavy bullets? It sounds counter-intuitive to me. Fast powder, heavy bullet = light charge of powder = light recoil. Slow powder, heavy bullet = heavier charge (more) of powder = more recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nupp217 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm also looking for 147 load for my production G34. Today I tested clays at 3.0 to an OAL of 1.10. The recoil and smoke was so little I have a tough time believing it will make minor PF. It was in side the 10 ring at 10 yards, which is accurate enough for me. I did have 1 tumble out of 50. So if this is the case and it is making minor Pf why is no one using it? I must be missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Clays can get weird very fast. Your going to run it closer to max to get it to make PF. Unless you have chrono'd the load you have no idea if it's making PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nupp217 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Clays can get weird very fast. Your going to run it closer to max to get it to make PF. Unless you have chrono'd the load you have no idea if it's making PF. Ok. A chrono is the next purchase on the list. Id be really surprised if I'm making minor with that load in my 34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z Sr Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 2.9 grains at 1.15 OAL. The only warning is that it tumbles in some guns. But no pressure signs in anything. What charge of Clays are you using? I was thinking of Clays as I have alot of it on hand, thanks. Thanks Duke, will try some in an M&P Pro and a stock Beretta M9, will chrono in these guns and check for tumble. I've found with other 9MM lead in the past, if I size to .357 and not .356, the tumble goes away, but as you said, gun to gun they vary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I am in the process of working up a load with this bullet. 3.0 of TG was a smoke show, but soft shooting. I think my chances of creating a accurate and reliable load will require a slower powder to prevent tumbling. For the time being I think I am going to use WSF and maybe try WST. I talked to someone and I recall them using AA#5, might try that as well. I find this mold makes a nice bullet, I don't know why it took me so long to get this mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I like WSF best, just followed Website. Started low and worked up to PF and the gun running smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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