justaute Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 All, Quick question. My understanding is that OAL is really just a part of the reloading equation; in reality, it's the angle or curve of the ogive that matters, especially for our CZ pistols. Thus far, my Shadow has been eating pretty much every factory/retail ammo with OAL under 1.155 Question: Assuming my bullets (i.e. Zero, Bayou) have similar ogive profiles to those of factory/retail, would it be safe to say I can safely reload to 1.145? I'm asking because I have often read that people are having an OAL reloading range of 1.10 to 1.20. Any input is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 i've seen longer OALs affect some CZs. when i first started, everyone was using 1.090" COL, so i've just followed suit and never had any problem feeding or accuracy wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 FWIW i load to 1.090 with zero and MG 124gr jhps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 In my experience it will be a trial and error process. I used a 9mm reamer from Brownells on my CZ barrels (just increased the throat), so now I can use the same 1911 ammo, just had to test for feed reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 In general, with a JHP you'll have to go shorter. With a round nose, you can go pretty long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks guys. Do many CZers shoot JHP? I'd figured most would shoot RN in production/limited.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Most around here shoot 124 montana jhp. I shoot whatever i have loaded. 124 jhp and 147 cmj montana golds, or 147 BBI's. I have all 3 9mm weights of Bayou's sitting here for me to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks DWFAN. I'm just starting to reload, got a 650 not long ago. Have a whole bunch of Zero 124 FMJ and a few 135 Bayou. If the Bayous workout, I might sell my stash of Zeros. Most around here shoot 124 montana jhp. I shoot whatever i have loaded. 124 jhp and 147 cmj montana golds, or 147 BBI's. I have all 3 9mm weights of Bayou's sitting here for me to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitestir Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I have been shooting 125gr zero JHP's. I reload them right at 1.1" and have never had an issue. They have been running flawless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If the Bayous workout, I might sell my stash of Zeros. dibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 FYI... My Zeros are RN, not JHPs. If the Bayous workout, I might sell my stash of Zeros. dibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 pm me anyways when the time comes. i'm down to 5k and it'll be gone in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) I'm loading my 135gr Bayou Bullets at 1.145 with 4.0gr of WST. They shoot softer than 147gr Zeros with 3.5gr of N320 both run about 130pf. Accuracy wise they are about the same. CZ Shadow SP01 CustomShop. Edited October 17, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Good to know, Ron. Any experience with either Clays or 231? I have a small bottle of each just for testing. I'm loading my 135gr Bayou Bullets at 1.145 with 4.0gr of WST. They shoot softer than 147gr Zeros with 3.5gr of N320 both run about 130pf. Accuracy wise they are about the same. CZ Shadow SP01 CustomShop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 The problem really depends on the ogive of your particular bullet. Long JHPs will lock up my shadow but I've never had a problem with RNs. Take one of your bullets drop it in a fired case (leaving it way long) then drop the round in your chamber. Pull it out and measure the OAL. Do that with a couple of different cases and bullets and you should get a good feel for the maximum length you can with your bullet/barrel combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Good to know, Ron. Any experience with either Clays or 231? I have a small bottle of each just for testing. I'm loading my 135gr Bayou Bullets at 1.145 with 4.0gr of WST. They shoot softer than 147gr Zeros with 3.5gr of N320 both run about 130pf. Accuracy wise they are about the same. CZ Shadow SP01 CustomShop. I tried clays with 147gr 3.2gr, didn't like the accuracy, but very soft shooting 135gr should be 3.6/3.7gr, YMMV. 231 is the twin to WST just bump it .1gr. To follow up on blindbat's post I take the barrel out and push a case/bullet in till it is all the way in then take it out and measure it and make my trial OAL at what ever it measures - .010 so if it comes out 1.175 I load at 1.165 etc. Always make sure it fits in the mag. Then the cycle test, first very slowly cycle 5 or 6 rounds thru the gun feeling for hang ups, if it passes the slow then I go to a rapid cycle test. (use dummies for these tests, you should have lots so you can practice reloads with full mags). Then off to the the range to crono and test fire. Edited October 17, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I was shooting Zeros and liking them until they became hard to get. I've switched to MG and couldn't be happier. I shoot the 124 FMJ. I tried JHP and tested sided by side for accuracy, and saw no appreciable difference, so i stick with the FMJ's and save a few bucks. FWIW, I also tested accuracy from 1.130 all the way out to 1.160. Using Vhit N320, 4.2 gn. Best grouping came in at 1.145 with 1.150 a very close second. I've never gone lower than 1.130". I'd really like to know why people do? In rifle shooting, as far as I know and have been told, you want the bullet to be almost touching the rifling for greatest accuracy. Wouldn't the same hold true for handguns? If yes, then why do people load FMJ's to as short a 1.10"? ( i know JHP's need to be shorter, especially in a CZ, but I'm asking about FMJ) You also asked about Ogive. The numbers above I'm quoting are actually being converted for ease of understanding. I use a bullet comparator, so my measurement is .860 to the ogive. That comes out to 1.145 ( i think, i'm going from memory, my notes are on the reloading bench downstairs ). Anyway, I found measuring COAL got very annoying with variances all over the place. Once I switched to measuring on ogive, it has gotten a lot easier. I'm usually +/- .002 measuring to ogive, when I was measuring to OAL, the MG's were coming out +/- .008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Great stuff. Thanks for all the information here. Got a UniqueTek micrometer installed and calibrated today -- makes tuning powder drop much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Loading Berry's 124gr with following specs: - OAL 1.12" - Clays 3.6gr - velocity 1045 - PF 129 soft, clean burning and accurate load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Cesar....I knew you would post in this thread. Out of curiosity, why are you using 1.12" OAL? Have you tried longer? Say 1.30 to 1.45. Loading Berry's 124gr with following specs: - OAL 1.12" - Clays 3.6gr - velocity 1045 - PF 129 soft, clean burning and accurate load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Ken, My guns (Shadow and SA) like OAL 1.12" with the bullet --> accuracy AND feeding reliability wise (etc). Reliable function may actually be more important than accuracy. I don't wanna mess with the recipe as it works more than fine. I spent over a year to come up with it and to settle with the load, I'm happy with it, a couple other guys tried it too (GMs and lesser). I live and shoot in Canada mostly, IPSC rules are different in Canada (outside USA), so I have to keep my guns legal in USPSA and IPSC - or it'd be way too expensive/ or I'd have to have at least one more Production gun. I'm not sponsored, and cannot afford 3+ Production guns like some others... so far... You are right that in general - longer OAL is a good thing. A friend of mine who shoots L10/L/Standard, uses 10mm mags in .40 gun (with spacers). In my case, my load works way too well to mess with, so far. If you have a chance to try it - do it. I posted all the data you need to copy the load. Cheers, Salute, Prost, За 'лося, Eugene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glefos Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Accuracy is relative. What might be considered good for one might not be for another. If you post group size, number of shots, distance and method of rest it would give more meaning to the load data being provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ken, My guns (Shadow and SA) like OAL 1.12" with the bullet --> accuracy AND feeding reliability wise (etc). Reliable function may actually be more important than accuracy. I don't wanna mess with the recipe as it works more than fine. I spent over a year to come up with it and to settle with the load, I'm happy with it, a couple other guys tried it too (GMs and lesser). I live and shoot in Canada mostly, IPSC rules are different in Canada (outside USA), so I have to keep my guns legal in USPSA and IPSC - or it'd be way too expensive/ or I'd have to have at least one more Production gun. I'm not sponsored, and cannot afford 3+ Production guns like some others... so far... You are right that in general - longer OAL is a good thing. A friend of mine who shoots L10/L/Standard, uses 10mm mags in .40 gun (with spacers). In my case, my load works way too well to mess with, so far. If you have a chance to try it - do it. I posted all the data you need to copy the load. Cheers, Salute, Prost, За 'лося, Eugene. I'm not disagreeing with you, but just trying to understand what you mean. When you say it's accuracy, compared to what? Did you compare 1.12 vs 1.145 or other OALs and find the groups better with 1.12? If not, what are you grouping with 1.12? Distance? Bench rest, off hand? What is your basis for the accuracy? I'm curious, because I wouldn't mind loading slightly less powder and shortening the OAL if it meant same or better accuracy than I get now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 No, I didn't load and compare ammo with different OALs, using same bullets. I tried different bullets and powders with greatest OAL my guns would shoot. I'm not shooting bullseye or aim for a minute before pulling trigger. As long as ammo and gun shoot better than I can. I practice shooting handgun from 1 yard to about 90 yards. I get groups smaller than half-dollar coin at 10 yards and hit BBQ gas cylinder 3-4 times out of 10 from 90 yards. That's good enough for me and my gun/ammo. No benchrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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