chp5 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Yesterday I shot a freind's AR with a JP Upper with a JP lightweight 18" barrel (20" gas system) and low mass bolt and carrier. It was considerably flatter and softer than my 16" Bushy with a Smith Enterprises comp (which I like). Does a 20" gas system contribute to softer cycling as compared to a 16" gas system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Yes, and the low mass system doesn't hurt either. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 We've had this debate several times now. I want all my competitors to have 16 in ARs so that's what I now recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 We've had this debate several times now. I want all my competitors to have 16 in ARs so that's what I now recommend. Kelly, You don't have to worry about me even with a 20" AR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Kelly: I used a 16" carbine back at the Tennessee Tacticle, with a Trijicon reflex on it! Seemed to do okay back there with that setup. First time I had ever shot that little carbine in a match and it was kind of fun, in a kissing your sister kind of way but I don't think I will do it again. That little .223 just danced around WAY to much compaired to my 20" carbine....same brake on each! KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 That little .223 just danced around WAY to much compaired to my 20" carbine....same brake on each! Thank you Kurt. I have always known that the physics say so and that my shooting experiences bear it out. I have been asked to "check out" a number of tricked out 16's by their owners and always have to nod my head and say "thats real nice" afterwards no matter how much the dot, or post jumped around. I have offered several folks a reciprocal chance to shoot my CTR-02 with LMOS and usually don't get taken up on my offer as though they are afraid to see what the difference really is. I know what the difference is and I know Kurt, Kelly, Benny, Bennie, Tony and Mikey know too I just wonder why so many folks think otherwise despite the science and the hard field data we have. Match placement and bbl length choice correlations seem to run somewhere around 90% of the front runners not using 16 inchers. They must all still be in the dark about the huge advantage those 16" bbl's are Thanks again Kurt, the reality check is appreciated. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I'll apologize in advance, I'm new to this.. (I currently have an 18" on order, but reading this, I'm thinking of uping to 20") Is the big difference between the 20's and 16's just because of weight? Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The gas system too. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 I'll apologize in advance, I'm new to this.. (I currently have an 18" on order, but reading this, I'm thinking of uping to 20") Ok - so if a 18" has the same gas system as a 20," will it be as flat/soft as a true 20" - all else being equal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 (edited) BerKim, The 18"er will have a full length gas system and will be a lot like a 20". The 18'er is supposed to be a good compromise if you are looking for a shorter barrel. Defining your reason for needing something shorter than a 20"er might help you in your decision. I see no real disadvantage to either, but feel the 20" might offer a slight edge in gas system efficiency and in velocity with heavies and slower powders. BTW, What 18" AR are ya gettin'? The 18 should shoot similar to a 20, but will have a different gas pulse duty cycle because pressure drops like a rock in the gas system as the bullet leaves the muzzle and this will happen sooner in an 18. I haven't shot an 18 so I don't know if a difference can be felt. -- Regards, Edited May 14, 2004 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 (edited) Thanks George, it's not an AR, wondering if it would apply to a Mini-14 (for a backup) I'm probably making a huge leap that what applies to one applies to the other. I was thinking this was barrel length only, not the gas system. Not tons of info on Mini's - so I'm reading everything... [the rest of the thread drift] I was trying to cut down on weight, but not get too short. And go with a .850" barrel rather than the 1.000". And I'm getting the .900 gas block (all from Accuracy) I'm still looking at comps, tried thier "thrust" comp, trying to try the "linear" comp, but leaning towards the Benn'e Coley comp But I'd rather carry the weight then ruin the rifle. Edited December 22, 2005 by BerKim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Hey BerKim, I believe the Rugers cannot have a free floated barrel and am thinking that the heavier the better might be the right way to go with the barrel if you are ever gonna use a sling or put any torque on the fore end while shooting. But having only had a stocker I can only tell you that sucker would deflect a round if you rested it on the buttstock -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilPJ Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 There is a difference between 20" and 16" which I can feel but when shooting a stage it really doesn't show at the timer in my case. In fact I like to shoot my 16" which doesn't even have a compensator just to annoy people who really make big fuzz about it. At close A-zone is so large that you cant miss it even when shooting 0.12-0.14s splits and no comp. Far away targets require good aiming so there is no real disadvantage either. Since it makes me aim properly and get hits It is just the targets in medium range that you lose some time with out compensator. How much that is? Maybe 0.05-0.10s per target would be my guess. So the difference between 16" and 20" should be less than that. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 The biggest shooting skill improvement I ever bought was a Cooley comped, 18 inch, lightweight JP Upper with a TA01 ACOG....... Night and day difference between that and a 20 inch heavy barreled Bushmaster upper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilPJ Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Good for you Nik. Best shooting skill improvement I have bought was my first reloading machine... Btw. Are you going to shoot at Topton Rifle Match 5/29? PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 I'd like to shoot Topton, if I can squeeze it in. I do have to work that weekend, so it may not happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilPJ Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Let's hope you can make it though. http://www.toptonfga.org/IPSC/rifle_match.html those stages do promise lots of fun... PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I have shot the rifle chp5 is refering to. It shoots like a BB gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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