Lawdog Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I need to know what brand powder to buy and reload a clone of the Whichester White Box 40S/W 180gr. FMJ 1020 vel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Alliant lists a load for Blue Dot powder that shows a 180gr Speer GDHP @ 1018 out of a 4" gun. Winchester shows a load for Autocomp with a Hornady 180 gr XTP @ 1053. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I need to know what brand powder to buy and reload a clone of the Whichester White Box 40S/W 180gr. FMJ 1020 vel? Why would you do that? The WWB smokes so much and is dirty. You can make better loads than that, just get the chrono of the loads and then start to work with good powders to get the right speed with the same bullet. It should be close enough for what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 try winchester super field...its about the closest thing to WWB as youll get. Titegroup or Win 231 better suits me and gets the velocity i need out of my guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 40 cal white box uses WSF powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 40 cal white box uses WSF powder. I seriously doubt that. Manufacturers do not use the off-the-shelf powders that they sell us. They are using proprietary blends that they do not sell to the public. Where did you hear that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I believe commercial powders are used also or powders not available to us. I am sure WIN would have a powder that is produced in bulk to maximize profit. There are loads (powders) for 180gr that make major and are softer shooting than WWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBruin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 40 cal white box uses WSF powder. I seriously doubt that. Manufacturers do not use the off-the-shelf powders that they sell us. They are using proprietary blends that they do not sell to the public. Where did you hear that from? I remember reading somewhere that they do indeed use those powders for their factory ammo. They don’t say specifically which powders they use for the pistol ammo, but here are some excerpts for the shotgun loads for the Winchester powder website. WAALITE – “This is the same powder used in Winchester's 26 gram, 980 fps, featherlight load” WST – “The choice for 12 gauge AA duplicate handloads and standard velocity handgun loads” SUPER HANDICAP – “Super Handicap is the same propellant used in Winchester's Super Handicap ammunition” WSF – “Super-Field propellant is the propellant of choice for Winchester 20 gauge AA Target loads” While it doesn’t give proof that WSF is used in the WWB loads, I think it’s fair to say Win uses powders available at your local powder retailer in their factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Wow, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info Blue. I have always been told that by manufacturers that I've talked to and it seemed like it was common knowledge for many years. I wonder if these are the exact powders or just a similar powder to duplicate the loads (about the WST and WSF)? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Try 5.2 of Alliant Power Pistol at 1.215. I find it almost identical in feel and even flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Try 5.2 of Alliant Power Pistol at 1.215. I find it almost identical in feel and even flash. I don't load .40's that long, but I think you'd need about 7.2 grains of Power Pistol at 1.12-1.13" OAL to make ~1,010 fps with 180s in a short (~4" barreled) gun. Edited September 26, 2011 by mizer67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Try 5.2 of Alliant Power Pistol at 1.215. I find it almost identical in feel and even flash. I don't load .40's that long, but I think you'd need about 7.2 grains of Power Pistol at 1.12-1.13" OAL to make ~1,010 fps with 180s in a short (~4" barreled) gun. Methinks that's pushing beyond max with Power Pistol. 7.6 with a 165 is very violent and harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Try some AA2 and see what you think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakshow10mm Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Wow, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info Blue. I have always been told that by manufacturers that I've talked to and it seemed like it was common knowledge for many years. I wonder if these are the exact powders or just a similar powder to duplicate the loads (about the WST and WSF)? Thanks! Winchester uses St Marks Powder and uses their (SMP's) numerical designation on some of the powders. The same character of powder Winchester uses is sold to handloaders. The WSF you buy on the shelf might be a different lot number with very, very slight changes in burn rate, but it's for the most part what they use. AutoComp is called SMP 224, H110/W296 is called SMP 296, W231/HP-38 is called SMP 231, W748 and W760 are also called SMP 748 and 760, respectively. I will have to look up the numbers for WAP and WSF, but WAP is now marketed as Ramshot Silhouette and date is identical. I think WSF is something like SMP 177. And as a big fan of WSF and the 20ga shotgun, yes those do identically duplicate the Winchester AA loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Try 5.2 of Alliant Power Pistol at 1.215. I find it almost identical in feel and even flash. I don't load .40's that long, but I think you'd need about 7.2 grains of Power Pistol at 1.12-1.13" OAL to make ~1,010 fps with 180s in a short (~4" barreled) gun. Methinks that's pushing beyond max with Power Pistol. 7.6 with a 165 is very violent and harsh. Depends on the source. For Alliant's data 7.2 is max. My link It's over max for Lyman's 49th manual but you can't get > 1,000 fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 You are correct about St Marks powders WSF = WSX 170 in St Marks world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trini Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Any powder that is like the old WSL?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I know I am late to this thread, but if you are still reading it I have chrono-ed several types of bullets with XD's of various barrel lenghts with Longshot which gave results at or above what you are looking for without getting close to the pressure maximum for the .40. With 180gr bullets I have these results with 20 shot strings using 7grns of Longshot... 180grn Zero HP OAL 1.133 in 4" Service XD = 1059.9 fps on a 65 degree day. XDm with 4.5" bbl showed 1102.5 the same day. 180grn Berry HP OAL 1.130 in 4" Service XD = 993fps on a 77 degree day. Difference is with the bullet not the temperature I assure you! Strangely with an XDm with .5 more barrel on the same day it was 1033.6fps. 180grn S&S cast lead TC OAL 1.128 4" Service XD = 1038fps on a 77 degree day. XDm showed 1062.3 the same day. All still make "major" in a SC XD with a 3.5" barrel as well with the Berry and cast lead showing 930.5 and 970.7 respectively. I did not retest with the Zero's with the SubCompact, but have no doubt they would come in a bit zippier. Universal will also do the trick, but it will be closer to the pressure limit for that powder, especially with a 4" barrel if that concerns you at all. Longshot can be used with 6.5 to 8grns with an 180grn bullet in the 40, and so these 7grn loads are very mild for that powder and still return very substantial velocities. I might add that the Longshot loads will shoot cleaner than the standard White Box Winchester loads, and to me they seem a bit milder on recoil. Even the lead bullets did not produce any noticeable smoke. They will be kind of "flashy" at night or in a darkened room like an indoor range (hopefully you will not be required to shoot them in a bedroom) though they are about the same as the WB in that respect, especially in the shorter barrels of the service and sub compact types. Hopefully this helps. I have found no other powder that gives as great velocities with lower pressures in the .40 than Longshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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